Harry Forgiving Snape / Grey!Snape and Character Growth

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 162882

> >>Betsy Hp:
> > I also don't understand why Snape's loyalty is suddenly crystal
> > clear.  Haven't you moved away from Grey!Snape here?  Snape is 
> > Dumbledore's man and has been for the entire series.  What's gray
> > about that? 

> >>Jen: Because it's not about the loyalty issue to me!  Snape's    
> loyal, great, what does that mean for Harry?  Harry will find out   
> he was wrong, he'll discover Snape was salvaging a bad situation on 
> the tower or following orders or whatever happened, but that's     
> *not* going to lead to the bigger issues of compassion or           
> forgiveness on Harry's part.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
I *think* I'm starting to understand your view point here. You want a 
Snape that is only nominally loyal probably for a technical reason, 
but is still at heart a really evil nasty guy. That way when Harry 
forgives him, Harry *really* forgives him. Is that it?

I have some problems with that Snape.  And with that Harry, for that 
matter.  Harry isn't that loving a boy.  I don't think he has it in 
him to forgive Snape *unless* Snape is unabashedly DDM.  Only that 
large of a shock (and it would be a massive shock for Harry) could 
possibly shake Harry out of his confidence in his current method of 
judging good people from bad.

> >>Jen:
> <snip>
> So no matter what we might think of Snape or his actions, JKR is   
> saying handing over the prophecy, the UV and killing Dumbledore    
> were all almost unforgiveable deeds done by Snape.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
I think Snape's involvement in the killing of Harry's parents is 
enough to be going on with.  If Snape is honestly responsible for the 
circumstances that ended with Dumbledore's death (IOWs, the choice to 
make the UV, etc.) then I don't see Harry ever forgiving that.  
Instead, Harry's hate will only grow stronger.

However, if Dumbledore was telling the truth about Snape feeling such 
strong remorse for his part in the death of Lily and James, then I 
think there's something there for Harry to cling to.  A strong enough 
reason for Harry to reevaluate his view of Snape, and forgive Snape 
his part in the death of Harry's parents.   Anything else is asking 
too much of Harry, IMO.

> >>Jen:
> And if Snape is ever going to get out of the situation he finds    
> himself in now because of his own choices, he is dependent on      
> Harry's mercy and the defeat of Voldemort.

Betsy Hp:
But if Snape really did kill Dumbledore, or if Dumbledore had to die 
because of a choice *Snape* made, Harry will not show him mercy.  
I've seen nothing in the books to suggest Harry has that sort of 
ability.  Oh sure, he'd probably give Snape a quick death (or, more 
likely a fair trial, if Harry can swing it) but forgiveness?  Not our 
Harry. <g>

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/162878
> >>Bart:
> <snip>
> 7) Therefore, I don't see any satisfactory way the story can end in 
> the next volume without Snape being 100% against Voldemort.         
> However, he has been always portrayed in a rather negative way in   
> the stories. Thus, my "Evil but allied" label. I think that is the 
> key. From the stories, I believe that Snape is NOT a good person,   
> on an absolute basis.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
I completely agree with this assessment, Bart (and wynnleaf's, too 
<g>).  I don't think DDM!Snape is going to be revealed as really a 
benevolent guy at heart.  All of his prickly actions in the previous 
books, his teaching methods, his clashes with Harry, are not going to 
get swept away.

I think the lesson (or a lesson, anyway <g>) the "true" Snape will 
teach Harry is that sometimes a good guy can also be a real ass.  A 
pleasant personality is no guarantee of a good guiding principle.

IMO, anyway. <g>

Betsy Hp