Snape's motivations & Occumency Mechanics (Was: Order Members'..)

[justcarol67]

No: HPFGUIDX 163234

Carol earlier:
> > Also, once he had tried to prevent the murders and spied on
Voldemort for Dumbledore, he became Voldemort's secret enemy and there
was no going back. If Voldemort found out, he was dead, so he might as
well continue to fight, secretly, on Dumbledore's side, as only he
could, and at the same time earn the trust and respect he craved.
> 
> Jen: 
> This reads like a personal motivation as well and dilutes 
> the 'risk' he took to return to Voldemort because it was really the 
> only choice he had in order to stay alive.  I mean, you get no 
> argument from me but I'm surprised you would characterize Snape in 
> this way. 

Carol responds:
I must have phrased it badly, then. How does choosing to side with DD
(and really earn his trust and respect) by appearing to return to
Voldemort, risking torture if not death, "dilute" the "'risk'" snape
took? It's a very real risk, at its greatest before Voldemort's fall
and after his return, but always real. DDM!Snape is always at risk of
discovery by someone--the DEs or Harry or Draco or LV himself.

All I'm saying is that at the point when he chose to go over to
Dumbledore, there was, for him, no going back to the Dark Lord he had
rejected, so rather than run or hide or sit it out, he might as well
join forces with DD and secretly do everything he could to undermine
Voldemort, using his Slytherin/DE connections and his Occlumency and
whatever else he could that only he could do.

BTW, I don't think that Legilimency works the way you think it does.
It can't dixcover underlying motives and loyalties. LV can't explore
someone's mind at will. It only works to reveal the thought that's
uppermost in someone's mind at the moment, which is why it's chiefly
used to detect lies. See snape's use of Legilimency to see the Potions
book as the clearest example of how Legilimency works and Snape's
explanation of how a skilled Occlumens can conceal the thought or
memory that contradicts the lie and therefore lie to Voldemort
undetected. I doubt that LV even knows that snape is using Occlumency
against him because he's simply suppressing particular memories and
substituting others in their place. It's not like Draco all too
obviously (and slowly) throwing up an easily detectable barrier. If
Snape tried that with LV, he'd be dead.

Carol, who never said anything about a layer of goodness in Snape but
does think that he's thoroughly and permanently opposed to Voldemort
despite his Slytherin instincts and personally loyal to Dumbledore,
even and perhaps especially with DD dead by his hand