Snape's motivations & Occumency Mechanics (Was: Order Members'..)

[Jen Reese]

No: HPFGUIDX 163198

> Carol responds:
> Yes, Snape takes pride in his dangerous work, but he wants 
> recognition for it, specifically from Harry because Harry needs to
> understand that Snape really is risking his life for the Order and
> for Dumbledore or they'll never get anywhere. <snip> Only Snape 
> can't say that directly without blowing his cover and/or revealing
> too much to Voldemort when he unavoidably exposes some of Harry's 
> memories through the Occlumency lessons.  If encounters with Snape
> are revealed, best that they be unpleasant.

Jen:  Much of my reading of Snape depends on how Occlumency works.  I 
just don't think it can operate to hide a complex layer of goodness, 
a True Self, under a veneer that Voldemort would find acceptable.  
Superb Occlumens or no, the greatest Legilimens in the world would be 
able to crack through in a few tries because the fissures would start 
almost immediately.  As soon as Voldemort sensed something different 
from the way he himself thinks or feels, or the types of things he 
picks up on from other DE's, Snape's mission would be finished and he 
would have compromised not only himself but the Order and 
Dumbledore's Plan.    

Snape talked about Occlumency being the art of subtlety, meaning one 
wrong move, one wrong thought or feeling, and you reveal something 
about yourself much like a potion changing color when stirred counter 
instead of clockwise.  It just makes sense to me you wouldn't want a 
double-agent praticing Occlumency who has to shield multiple things 
about himself other than his allegiance--the less he shields the 
lower the risk.

> Carol:
> I don't see that fury for personal vengeance against Voldemort, even
> though I do believe that he sincerely wants to help bring Voldemort
> down. All of the fury we've seen from Snape relates in some way to
> James Potter, who had the colossal nerve to die without allowing 
> Snape to fulfill his life debt, and/or Sirius Black, who wanted (in
> Snape's view) to murder him and who (Snape thought till proven
> wrong) had betrayed the Potters to their deaths, making Snape's 
> efforts to undo his revelation of the Prophecy futile. 

Jen:  I picked vengeance because Snape is someone with a history of 
holding long grudges and feeling vengeance toward people he believes 
have wronged him.  I could see the remorse he felt when Voldemort 
targeted the Potters morphing into hatred and revenge when Voldemort 
actually killed Lily.  Snape's remorse logically should have been 
another instance of the 'weakness' he devalues, wearing his heart on 
his sleeve.  I'm speculating he decided to learn Occlumency after 
Lily's death both as a way to suppress his feelings and to hold power 
over Voldemort when he returned. 

Again my reading is based in part on how Occlumency works.  It would 
be much easier to hide his allegiance if Snape's motives for 
defeating Voldemort are dark.  Hatred and vengeance are feelings 
Voldemort understands, unlike love or idealistic notions about saving 
the WW.  

Carol:
> So, yes, he wants Voldemort destroyed and he wants an important part
> in that destruction, but he doesn't seem to feel the same sort of
> passionate hatred toward Voldemort, whom he regards more as a deadly
> menace than a personal enemy, IMO. <snip> But the enmity isn't as
> personal as his hatred of James or his loyalty to Dumbledore.  It's
> more intellectual, a knowledge that this Dark Wizard must be
> deatroyed...

Jen: So far we've only heard personal *emotional* reasons for 
everything Snape has chosen to do, from his hatred of James and the 
Marauders, to his remorse when Voldemort targeted the Potters, to the 
reason Dumbledore trusts him, to the reason Snape hates Harry and 
etc.  Nothing global, nothing intellectual, nothing other than 
personal.  

> Carol:
> So Snape's personal vendetta against Voldemort, if he has one,
> would be for killing the Potters despite his efforts to thwart him.
>(?) 

Jen: Right, I agree there.  And possibly his mother is involved 
somewhere in the backstory as you mentioned, another personal 
motivation.

Carol:
> Also, once he had tried to prevent the murders and spied on 
> Voldemort for Dumbledore, he became Voldemort's secret enemy and
> there was no going back. If Voldemort found out, he was dead, so he
> might as well continue to fight, secretly, on Dumbledore's side, as
> only he could, and at the same time earn the trust and respect he 
> craved.

Jen: This reads like a personal motivation as well and dilutes 
the 'risk' he took to return to Voldemort because it was really the 
only choice he had in order to stay alive.  I mean, you get no 
argument from me but I'm surprised you would characterize Snape in 
this way. 

Jen, who lost this post once when she accidentally hit the 'back' 
button on her mouse and only had a portion saved. :-(