Practicing Legilimency against an Occlumens

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 163285

---  "Jen Reese" <stevejjen at ...> wrote:
>
> Carol:
> > BTW, I don't think that Legilimency works the way 
> > you think it does.
> > ...
> 
> Jen: 
> Snape's own description in the Occlumency chapter of
> OOTP makes Legilimency sound fairly invasive when 
> practiced by an expert. Masters can -
>
> '...delve into the minds of their victims and [to] 
> intepret their findings correctly'. 
>
> We see that Snape can call forth a stream 
> of memories from Harry, ...
> 
> Then Snape mentions intepretation involved which means 
> to me some of what a Legilimens sees is not obvious 
> from the start but requires a level of skill to put 
> the pieces together.  
> 

bboyminn:

On this issue I have to agree with Carol. There is a very
real difference between the art of Legilimency and the
spell of Legilimency. The art or skill is very subtle, 
and I suspect from the examples in the books, the subject
barely knows that it is happening. 

However, when Snape casts the Legilimency Spell, it is 
not subtle at all. Harry is completely lost in his 
memories. Snape and Snape's office completely disappear.
We don't see the completely loss of immediate awareness 
when the subtle skill of Legilimency is practiced. 

You note yourself that /interpretation/ of what knowledge
is gained from the skill of Legilimency is important. The
random thought and images are nothing without context,
so Voldemort is interpreting the context more than the
images themselves.

> 
> Jen:
>
> ...
> 
> Anyway, my point before was that Snape would need to 
> block too many memories *if* he is aligned with 
> Dumbledore's morality and/or holds political 
> convictions about the good of the WW ...

bboyminn:

Sorry, I cut quite a bit, I'm just using this as an entry
point to add another piece of information to the 
discussion.

Keep in mind that Snape is a Spy FOR Voldemort, or at 
least Voldemort beleives he is. So, thought indicating 
conflicting loyalties are normal in Snape's mind. Snape 
has to act VERY convincingly that he is on Dumbledore's 
side in order to maintain Dumbledore's confidence and 
trust in him. To some extent, that means while he is 
in Dumbledore's company, he must believe it himself.
So, again, finding conflicting loyaties in Snape's
mind would be normal and expected for Voldemort.

Consequently, I don't think Snape has to block each and
every positive thought he has. I think he mearly has to
block the details of his true allegiance, plus a few
details of specific information that Dumbledore doesn't 
want Voldemort to have just yet.

I also think Snape can block large areas of his mind 
with a single thought. He doesn't have to manage each
and every individual detail, he can functionally block
whole classes of information. Can't prove that of
course, but thinking of the mental processes involved,
it seems reasonable to me.

Not sure what it's worth but there it is.

Steve/bboyminn