Is Bella a killer? WAS:,Re: Could Deathly Hallows

[justcarol67]

No: HPFGUIDX 163303

Jeremiah wrote:
> > Well, not to come across as mysogynist... But Bellatrix is a bit
mouthy. At DD's recollection of her trial she was very vocal but only
at the last minute, she is all chatter at the ministry but hesitates
waiting for Malfoy's signal. I took her proclamations at Snape's 
house to be no more than one Death Eater trying to look more 
dedicated that the other and trying to set an example for her 
sister... This all goes into my theories about how Snape is an 
accomplished Occlumens and since Bellatrix trained Draco how to shut
his mind I can only surmise that bellatrix is hiding a lot from
Voldemort and blerts out thins like "I'd love it if my child died for
Lord Voldemort" (no, not a direct quote but you get the idea) so she
could look better in front of Snape... and Wormtail was there... he's
a sneaky one.(I think it was ok for them to kill Harry at the minstry
only if it wouldn't harm the prophesy... I'll have to look that 
up...) but she could have killed Sirius and I can't figure out why
except that she's not a killer... meaning someone who kills for fun or
just because they can.
> 
> So, I see her as all talk... or, more precisely: Lots of talk and
does backup her fellow DE's but is not a murderer just a sadist who
likes to hear screams from torture... She's still a sicko...

Jenni from Alabama responded: 

> I couldn't disagree with you more. I think that Bellatrix has the
potential to become another Voldemort. I think she enjoys causing pain
and watching others suffer. I think she would kill without a second
thought - but only after watching them writhe in agony from torturing
them for a while. She likes to play with her prey before she does them
in. A real, true sicko! I think Harry and the Order better keep an eye
on her, she's one nasty piece of work!

Carol adds:

While I agree with Jenni that Bellatrix is a "sicko" who likes
watching others suffer (not to mention inflicting torture herself), I
don't think she has the potential to become another Voldemort, either
in terms of power or ambition. She's a fanatically loyal *follower* of
Voldemort rather than a would-be Dark Lady (female Dark Lord). 

I also disagree with Jeremiah that she's trying to impress Snape. On
the contrary, she doubts Snape's loyalty to her beloved master (not
that she necessarily thinks he's DDM! but she certainly suspects that
he's OFH!--"slithering out of action" and all that). Snape goes to
great pains to convince her of his loyalty to LV before he begins to
deal with Narcissa. 

Regarding Occlumency, I'm quite surprised that Bellatrix knows it at
all. Who would she use it on? She wears her emotions and her fanatical
loyalty on her sleeve! ("We alone were loyal! We alone tried to find
him!") She's certainly not trying to conceal anything from Snape,
except in one instance--her fear that his Occlumency can fool "the
greatest Legilimens in the world" (quoted from memory). She's afraid
to speak that thought out loud, but there's no question in my mind
that Snape, an accomplished Legilimens who, in any case, can read
Bella like a book, knows what she's thinking and plays on her fears
and apprehensions. 

As for Wormtail listening in, he hears only the very begining of the
conversation before Snape sends him from the room and seals the door
behind him. (I take that blasting spell to be an Impervius with
perhaps something else thrown in to create a bang and a flash as a
warning to Wormtail not to spy on him again.) Snape, the inventor of
Muffliato, is not going to allow the rat to continue listening at
doors. The most that Wormtail can report is that Bellatrix and
Narcissa came to visit Snape and that Narcissa had a favor to ask him.
What happened after that, Wormtail can only guess. (Voldemort,
however, may have had a little talk with Bellatrix and/or Narcissa
based on the little that Wormtail knew, if he dared to report it.)

Also, far from waiting for her brother-in-law Lucius Malfoy's signal
in the MoM, Bellatrix wants to Accio the Prophecy immediately and get
on with the torturing and killing. Lucius has to restrain her and
remind her that they can't allow anything to happen to the Prophecy.

And while I agree with both of you that she's a sadist who likes to
hear her victims scream in agony (or even Crucio them into insanity, a
feat she seems to be proud of), I don't think we can conclude from
that canon fact that she isn't a killer. She certainly killed the fox
she suspected of being an Auror quickly enough. She just doesn't get
the enyoyment out of Avada Kedavra that she gets out of the Cruciatus
Curse. I imagine that she can also cast an effective Imperius Curse
(it may have been a disguised Bellatrix who Imperioed Madam Rosmerta),
but she's not a specialist in that curse like Mulciber because, again,
it doesn't give her the sadistic enjoyment that Cruciatus does.

Why then didn't she kill her dear cousin Sirius straight out? I think
she probably wanted to bring him to his knees, knock his wand from his
hand, and torture him--but you can't do that with a battle raging.
Other Order members were likely to hit her in the back with a curse
while she did that. So she did the second best thing, enjoying the
duel with him as he enjoyed it with her. (Sirius was rather recklessly
showing off; Bella was probably doing the same, not to mention that
duelling "the Animagus Black" did not allow her time to concentrate on
casting a spell like AK that requres power and will--and preferably an
unarmed or unsuspecting victim. There's no countercurse, but an AK
*can* be deflected.) Her spell knocking him through the Veil was, I
think, as much a surprise to her as it was to him, but she certainly
realized at once that she had killed him and expected to be rewarded
by Voldemort for her deed. Unfortunately, the loss of the Prophecy
(and Dumbledore's arrival) spoiled her victory.

You don't need to be a misogynist to hate Bellatrix. She's an evil,
sadistic devotee of a Dark Lord whose favorite sport is torturing
helpless victims, including children. But I do think "mouthy" is far
from the mark. Between Bellatrix and Barty Jr., both of whom boasted
that they were LV's most faithful servant, it would be hard to say who
is correct. Certainly, now that Barty has been robbed of his soul,
Bellatrix can claim the title without contenders.

Carol, who was surprised and pleased to see a human side of Bellatrix,
affection for her sister, in HBP, but does not consider her any less
psychotically fanatical for all that