James and Lily defying Voldemort

[Sherry]

No: HPFGUIDX 147730

> Miri wrote:
> >
> > When it talks about 'those who have thrice defied him' does this mean
> > that Lily and James, together, worked against him thus defying him or
> > does it mean that they faced him three times, in person, and defied
> > him that way?

Amontillada:

I read "thrice" as indicating three particular occasions of defiance,
not only their ongoing efforts against him. On the other hand, it's
hard for me to believe that Lily and James had confronted him
firsthand three times, and yet had not been killed. The general image
I've gotten is that Voldemort was absolutely ruthless, and it doesn't
mesh with that that they had survived three confrontations--and so had
the Longbottoms.

Perhaps "thrice defied" referred to three particularly important
occasions--for example, times when Lily and James snared one or some
of Voldemort's most important supporters. Frank and Alice Longbottom
had likewise made especially important strikes against the Death
Eaters (just as intelligence agents make major and minor discoveries).

> Krista:
> When I read this, it made me wonder if the graveyard scene in GOF is
one of
> the scenes of Lily & James defying him?  The first would be when
they were
> killed and a second could be that scene.  There could be another one
coming
> in the new book or there could have been something before they were
killed.

Amontillada:
The wording of the prophecy says "who HAVE thrice DEFIED him"
(emphasis added)--the past perfect tense of "defy." Trelawney was
evidently saying that the parents had ALREADY done that three times
before she made the prophecy. Dumbledore interpreted those words as
pointing to the Potter and Longbottom couples, thinking of things they
had already done. If the phrase had suggested "things they have done
OR WILL DO," there would have been little or no way to narrow it down!

Amontillada
(fervently avoiding any thought of time travel playing a part in this
prophecy)