Teaching Styles

[festuco]

No: HPFGUIDX 147963

r what this passage tells us.
 
> It's a very good question - because obviously if Neville after two 
> and a half years is still making the same mistake in potions classes 
> that he made in his very first lesson, something is wrong.

Gerry
Yes, his fear of Snape.

> So - what do we actually see in this class?
> 
> We see a boy make a careless and elementary mistake for the nth time 
> in over two years. We see a teacher tell him *exactly* what he did 
> wrong, and express frustration that this students is making such 
> mistakes.

Gerry
Do we? I'd say we see a boy so paralyzed with fear of his teacher that
he regularly goes to pieces and makes elementary mistakes. Canon says
Neville goes to pieces because of his fear, not that he is a careless
little boy that should be disciplined. Where is the canon that Neville
is ever careless? why should he be so now? 

Actually I think the first disastrous lesson may have started the fear
of potions which rapidly changed in a fear of Snape. And the one big
mistake Snape makes in this first lesson is giving them a potion where
a simple mistake will have such huge effects. It was an accident
waiting to happen, as anyone with common sense could predict. Then
when it happens, Snape - who is clearly shocked - lashes out at
Neville. If he had acted differently, reigned in his temper that would
probably already have made a difference. 

I also think we see a teacher here who either does not recognize that
the way he bullies Neville is actually the cause of the problem or
does not care about that. In both cases that makes Snape an average
teacher, not a good one. Neville is obviously perfectle capabel of
following instructions if Hermione gives them or when Snape is absent.

Now Snape does not have to be nice to Neville. He could have tried to
leave him alone. Even a completely inflexible person should be able to
manage that.
> 
> We then see the teacher try something new, because obviously what has 
> been done in the past doesn't work. We see flexibility (good or bad). 

Nothing new. Just another way of bullying and installing fear. Verbal
bullying did not work, try something stronger. I'm sure Snape wants
Neville to get it, but I'm equally sure goes about it entirely the
wrong way. I also believe that Snape is genuinly not able to
understand how anybody can make elemental mistakes. And that is a very
bad thing for a teacher. Because what for most is quite elemental is
for some very, very difficult. It is exactly that attitude - this is
elemental and therefore you should be able to do it - that makes for
traumatized students who really, really try, do not manage and instead
of getting decent help from their teacher get punishments. I know at
least one case where someone who was dislectic was severely harmed
because he kept making the same "elemental" spelling mistakes. Now I
know your opinion on modern teaching methods, but please keep in mind
that the old methods were just as good in making students suicidal
when they genuinly could not help their mistakes and got punisment on
punisment and sarcasm on sarcasm because they had the kind of teacher
that was not able to understand that for them elemental was not
elemental but virtually impossible. 

 
> Honestly - in terms of pedagogical theory, explicitly telling a 
> student they have a made a mistake, explicitly telling them what that 
> mistake is, and then given them an incentive and an opportunity to 
> correct that mistake is something you'd find 
> very few people disagreeing with. The precise details of how Snape 
> did it - yes, some people would certainly object to the 
> *specific* incentive - but the general practice is one most people 
> would see as quite sensible.

Not in this case. It is sadistic, pure and simple. Now I agree that
Snape would never have let him poison his pet, it is clear from the
reactions of the class everybody thinks he is capable of it and I'm
sure he knows it. Otherwise his "incentive" would not have worked. So
what do we have: do this right or your pet dies. 


> It seems to me the argument against what Snape does in this case 
> comes from one of two places.
> 

> While most modern educational theory seeks to emphasise the 
> 'positive' when it comes to disciplining students, that doesn't 
> necessarily mean that such emphasis is necessarily universally true, 
> or the only way to do things. There is a place for 
> both negative reinforcement and even punishment in schools. 

Gerry
There is a distinction between that and downright sadism. This was an
example of sadism. As for negative reinforcement: when a teacher
favours that he should be sure there is nothing else than attitude
that prevents the student from performing rightly. Here Snape does not
recognize the paralyzing ability of fear that prevents Neville from
doing it right. Therefore his method is wrong and makes the problem
worse. Do we see Neville doing better after that? No we do not. He
needs an exam without Snape to show people what he is capable of as
far as potions are concerned. 

Gerry

Gerry