[HPforGrownups] What Hermione thinks of Snape as a teacher (LONG)/ a bit of Hermione andTrelawne

[Magpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 148013


> Alla:
>
> Can we conclude
> from this that teachers who teach Arithmancy and Ancient Rules for
> example are good teachers? I am not so sure.
>
> Magpie:
>
> We can conclude that any teacher Hermione doesn't criticize as a
teacher
> performs at a basic level that's okay with her.  Hermione doesn't
like
> having her time wasted in class.  She seems to consider Snape a
perfectly
> legitimate teacher.  She doesn't have to give passionate defenses
of Snape
> as a teacher (besides conversations about how X is an excellent
teacher
> being sort of contrived)

Alla:
Such conversations could be contrived if they are badly written and
not contrived if they are well written, IMO. As I said in my earlier
posts for example I disagree with Hermione comparing Snape speech in
DADA to Harry's, I see little similarities, if any, but if you are
to argue that you agree with Hermione, doesn't such conversation
seems like a very good way to show that Hermione likes Snape's
teaching?

Magpie:

Look, the author has about a bajillion things that she needs to do in these 
books, and she can't be bothered to answer questions that aren't even 
related to the plot and that we should be able to see without being told 
just to settle things on messageboards.  This issue is not as complicated as 
it's being made.  Yes, Hermione likes Lupin as a teacher and does not defend 
Snape's every action in the class.  That's not the point.  The point is that 
Snape has a certain level of competence that is a given and that is not 
questioned by any student, including Hermione.  They complain about things 
he does in class, they complain about things in his class.  But neither 
Hermione nor anyone else doubts Snape the way certain other teachers are 
doubted (though people fight the text on that too).

No, Hermione probably would not have liked Divination no matter who was 
teaching it, but yes, she probably would have shown respect for Firenze that 
she does not show for Trelawney because Trelawney is a fraud.  Sometimes she 
makes real predictions and is not being a fraud, but in her class she makes 
predictions that are blatantly untrue, sometimes in order to 
passive-aggressively insult people and Harry and Ron submit homework that's 
completely made up.  She sometimes gets emotional in class and takes it out 
on students, iirc.  I think Hermione would probably lack respect for 
Trelawney no matter what she was teaching.

We've seen Snape in class, we know he demands high acheivement, we know he 
gives difficult homework assignments that require a lot of work and study, 
we see Harry and his friends working in his class.  Nobody is getting out of 
this school without a good grasp of Potions. Whether all the kids enjoy his 
classes or think he's a great teacher is not the mark of whether he's doing 
his job.  Snape definitely has problems as a teacher, which Rowling has even 
spelled out in interviews: when he's picking on kids and abusing his power, 
the kids see through him.  When Snape is picking on Harry, he is not being a 
teacher.  There are plenty of times in canon, therefore, when Snape is not 
being a teacher and the kids know it.  Other times he is, and the kids know 
that too. Hermione sees Snape as a teacher and thus gives him the respect 
she has for the position.  She does not do this with teachers who fail to 
meet that minimal requirement.  Neither do Harry or Ron, whose opinions on 
that subject actually jibe completely with Hermione's.  She's just more 
vocal about it.

The ironic thing is that despite there being no real reason for JKR to have 
all the characters sitting around shooting the breeze about how they 
actually do learn in Snape's class, really, we get this in HBP when JKR 
gives Ernie a throwaway line about how he thought Snape's DADA class was a 
good lesson. Ernie's got no reason to mean anything else than what he's 
saying there, he's got no reason to make Snape out to be better than he is, 
the narrator doesn't undercut his words like with Lavender and Parvati 
speaking about Trelawney, and even Harry thinks Ernie's an okay guy.  Snape 
is capable of being a competent teacher who gives a good class.  Sometimes 
he chooses to behave like a bully instead.  The kids deal with both.

> Renee:
> Maybe JKRs tolerance treshhold for sadism is low. But it's obvious to
> me that she means Snape to be sadistic, and this, again is a possible
> indication of where she'll be taking him in the last book.


Magpie:
Actually, I see the opposite, that JKR's tolerance for sadism is high. 
There's sadism throughout the books of the type Snape shows.

-m