Sadistic Teachers (was:Re: Teaching Styles)

[Renee]

No: HPFGUIDX 148069

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "horridporrid03"
<horridporrid03 at ...> wrote:
<snip>
> >>Renee:
> > But now that you're bringing her into the discussion anyway,
> > I'd like to point out again that she's the one who called Snape `a
> > sadistic teacher', without qualification.
> > <snip>
> 
> Betsy Hp:
> Yes, but that was a throw away comment.  I honestly don't think she 
> meant he got a sexual charge out of tormenting students.  (It would 
> rather kill the ambiguousness of his character she's tried so hard 
> to build up, IMO.)  I also suspect that JKR was using a more 
> informal meaning for sadistic, synonymous with mean, nasty, and 
> unfair.  I get the sense that when people on this list lable Snape a 
> sadist, they're going for the orignial Marquis De Sade meaning. 

Renee:
You sense this? I'd be a lot more convinced if presented with some
hard evidence. Which people on this list who called Snape sadistic
have suggested he got a sexual charge out of tormenting students? I
can't remember anyone making such a claim, but even if I missed a post
or two, it can't have been many. Nevertheless, I'd be interesting in
reading their arguments, so maybe you could point me to some of these
posts?
   
As for the meaning of sadistic: `deriving sexual gratification from
inflicting pain or emotional abuse on others' isn't the only official
definition; `the deriving of pleasure from cruelty' is another one,
and I daresay one that is used more often. I don't doubt most of the
people who accuse Snape of sadism, JKR included, are thinking of this
second one. (I even found a third definition: 'extreme cruelty', but I
wouldn't go as far as calling Snape *extremely* cruel.) Anyway, the
second definition goes further than just mean, nasty and unfair: it
says you like being that way. To me, Snape's glittering eyes
definitely point towards enjoyment. 

<snip> 
Betsy: 
> I was showing that JKR is quite 
> capable of showing a character get pleasure out of causing another 
> character pain.  She made that very clear, IMO, with Umbridge.  Yet, 
> she described Snape as cold and glittery.  He never even cracked a 
> smile.

Renee:
Obviously, we have a different interpretation of "glittery". I suppose
that can't be helped. But the toad incident wasn't the only incident I
mentioned in my post, though it's the only one you address. Snape does
crack a smile, and a horrible one at that, when he is about to torment
Harry over the Marauder's Map, for instance, and I believe Alla
mentioned yet another example.  

Renee