Ollivander / Fortescue /... / Horcrux / Bk7 Opening

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 148253

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "exodusts" <exodusts at ...> wrote:
> > Tonks:
> > ...  Ollivander doesn't need to appear dead, he just needs
> > to disappear for awhile. Later when LV is vanquished 
> > Ollivander can go back to his business.  ...
> 
> Exodusts:
> 
> The problem with this idea is that it still doesn't resolve the 
> principal weakness with the DD-hides-Olivander theory. Here is
> the quote, from the American edition of HBP, that deals with 
> DD's proposed methods of hiding:
> 
> "...edited quote..."
> 
> Now that tells us one thing very clearly: DD's method of hiding 
> involves faking death. Not just spiriting the person away 
> (note "captured AND killed", not "captured OR killed"). If DD 
> had hidden Ollivander, he would have left some false evidence 
> of a demise. But Ollivander just vanished from his shop one day. ...
> 

bboyminn:

I think we have fallen into a fandom trap here, the same trap we
always fall into, and that is, once a new 'thing' is introduced in the
books, it becomes the end-all be-all solution to every problem. When
Time-Turning was introduce, it became the solution to every problem.
Mysterious all-knowing Dumbledore is really Ron time-turning. In the
end, Harry will time-turn back and save himself from Voldemort. Now,
today, everything under the sun is a Horcrux. 

Dumbledore says he can hide Draco and family by faking their death,
suddenly faked-death has to be the solution to every problem.
Ollivander can just be gone, gone because gone is all that is need to
solve his problem. Dumbledore may or may not have helped Ollivander
escape, but there really is no need to fake Ollivander's death nor to
fake the death of each and every character who is now or who will be
missing. 

It is fun speculation, but it doesn't necessarily apply to every
problem encountered.

>
>...edited...
>
> Exodusts:
> 
> ... I prefer the Fortescue-Portrait connection. Voldemort has 
> been in DD's office - see HBP - and later realised that the ice 
> cream seller in Diagon Alley was the descendant of the portly 
> wizard in the portrait above DD's desk. Consequently, he captured 
> Florian and got word to the  portrait, via other portraits in 
> Florian's house, that unless it starts passing information on 
> what goes on in DD's office, the relative will suffer gruesome 
> torments.
> 

bboyminn:

Sorry, but I find it very hard to believe that you can coerce, extort,
or blackmail a Portrait, something that is hardly more than a well
made animated object.

> 
> 
> > CV:
> > If Voldy was going to make his 6th and final horcrux with the
> > killing of Harry, and that failed, then there should be two Voldy
> > bits floating around, no? ...
> 
> Exodusts:
> Not if the spare bit went into Harry OR if the split never occurred 
> because Harry didn't die.
> 
 
bboyminn:

Just my opinion, but I think you have a distorted view of the nature
of soul bits. Logically Voldemort has killed many many more people
than he has made Horcruxes, so do you claim that all those soul bits
are wandering free somewhere looking for a living body or inanimate
object to inhabit? I don't think so.

Any soul bit that is not specifically and intentionally removed from
the core soul for purposes of a Horcrux, remains with the core soul as
part of the seventh and final Horcrux which is Voldemort himself. When
Voldemort was Vapormort, any soul-bit that may have existed remained
with the core-soul in the forest of Albania. 

I believe that it is the nature of the soul, even a damaged soul, to
stay together in something approximating one piece. It doesn't seem in
the nature of the soul to allow itself to be separated. That takes a
conscious, direct, and willfull act on the part of the soul owner; it
is a very unnatural state for the soul. I'm quite sure the various and
many soul-bits didn't go wandering off on their own, but again, that's
just my opinion.


> > bboyminn:
> > ... 
> > For this to work, I submit the following speculation.
> >
> > First, Harry, Ron, and Hermione will spend two weeks at the
> > Dursley and hilarity will ensue. Then they will go to Bill's 
> > wedding. Then they will be off to Godrics Hollow. Then back to
> > the Dursley where Harry prepares to leave them forever. 
> > Immediately after Harry's 17th Birthday, the DEs will attack 
> > and the Trio will be forced to defend the Dursleys.
> >
> > ...edited...
> 
> Exodusts:
> 
> It's not clear from HRH's conversation at the end of HBP exactly
> what order things are going to happen in. HRH could end up going
> to the Dursleys, then to the Wedding, or vice versa ... Try this
> for an  opening -
> 
> HRH go to The Burrow 1st. This enables LV to launch a mass attack, 
> attempting to kill Harry ... because Harry would be too safe at 
> the Dursleys with their protection, but not safe enough at the 
> Burrow ...
> 
> Naturally, Harry is packed off straight back home after the 
> wedding, .... Ron and Hermione go with him. ... Dudley tells 
> Harry that Vernon & Petunia went to London, to check out the 
> value of 12 GOP .... LV had set a watch on the Dursleys ... 
> Anyway, HRH end up having to go to 12 GOP with or without a sad,
> repentant Dudley, and rescue V & P from a Death Eater ambush 
> at 12 GOP. ...
>


bboyminn:

That's a perfectly good alternative scenario, though I could quibble
with some small bits of it. I'm not trying to dictate what /will/
happen, merely trying to come up with a sequence of event that allows
events that we think are likely to happen...to happen. 

Personally, I don't like the idea of the attack happening at Grimmauld
Place. That would pretty much eliminate the Black House from the
story, even though we know that some significant events will likely
occur there, like finding the Locket Horcrux. I think an early attack
at the Black House would force them to abondon it, since clearly the
Death Eaters would know where it is and would be watching it.

Also, as a side note, while Dumbledore's Secret Keeper Charm may have
been broken, we know that the Black House is thoroughly protected by
Sirius's ancestors with ever muggle repelling and protection charm
known to man. Even without the Secret Keeper Charm, which can be
re-instated with a new Secret Keeper, the Black House is more
thoroughly protected than most magical places...or so I speculate.

So overal, your idea is as good as any, and certainly makes a
reasonable account of the time and events, which may other
speculations fail to do.

Just passing it along.

Steve/bboyminn