Young Dumbledore (wasRe: Why Leave Harry at HW at the End of HBP?)

[Ceridwen]

No: HPFGUIDX 148395

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "susanbones2003" <rkdas at ...> 
wrote:
>
> --- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Miles" <miles@> wrote:
> >
> > susanbones2003 wrote:
> > > That passage hit me like a ton of bricks. I started wracking my
> > > memory. When did Harry wheedle information out of people? This
> > > suggests that he's been a calculating, manipulating little sneak
> > > thief or something and I can not for the life of me think when! 
> <snip>
> > > He tried his best to
> > > be numb around Aunt Marge but he never wheedled anything out of 
> her.
> > > He did lie quite often to DD (about things that were bothering 
> him)
> > > but it was never a wheedling, conniving thing. How did Harry get
> > > experience that would allow him to identify with LV?
> > 
> > Miles:
> > You gave the answer, but didn't work it out: Harry was used to 
get 
> small
> > benefits from the Dursleys (including information). Just before 
> the desaster
> > with Aunt Marge in CoS (?) he made Vernon to promise him an early 
> escape
> > from Privet Drive. Later he very well played the "Sirius, the 
mass 
> murderer"
> > card without any open threat. So yes, Harry can be very 
> manipulating if
> > necessary.
> > 
> > Miles
> 
Jen D.:
> ...but I just don't see 
> Harry doing anywhere nearly as manipulative and calculating as LV, 
> at least until he meets Slughorn, gets the Prince's book, or needs 
> that memory. Then I see him developing skills in these less-than-
> appealing areas. Felix Felecis gives him such a leg up in this 
area. 
> It seems to introduce him to a level of falsehood and manipulation 
I 
> didn't know he had in him. He plays Slughorn in such an obvious and 
> melodramatic way. Then is when, in the pursuit of a good, I saw him 
> behave most like LV. It was not pleasant and I don't want to see 
> Harry put the end entirely before the means to that end. Then he'd 
> lose his humanity, his pure and untarnished soul.
> Jen D., suddenly feeling a little sad...

Ceridwen:
Harry began his adventure in HBP by being manipulative.  He was 
Dumbledore's lure to reel in the Slughorn prey.  Dumbledore leaves 
Harry alone with Slughorn for a stretch of time while he peruses 
knitting patterns in the bathroom.  Harry presents the case that not 
all the teachers are in the Order.  He presses the point:

"Harry had been sure Slughorn would be one of those wizards who could 
not bear to hear Voldemort's name spoken aloud, and was not 
disappointed: Slughorn gave a shudder and a squawk of protest, which 
Harry ignored.

'I reckon the staff are safer than most people while Dumbledore's 
headmaster; he's supposed to be the only one Voldemort ever feared, 
isn't he?'  Harry went on."  (HBP, Scholastic, pg. 72)

This is manipulation.  Subtle, but there.  When Dumbledore enters 
shortly after, he twists the knife by saying that he is giving up.  
Slughorn's talk with Harry, short as it was, was the deciding factor 
in making up his mind.  JKR allows us to listen as Slughorn 
reassesses his position.  And, Dumbledore expected it, according to 
the conversation between him and Harry on page 74.  It isn't 
explicitly stated, but the fact that Slughorn likes to be surrounded 
by 'the famous, the successful, and the powerful' was played by 
bringing him the Famous Harry Potter.  Dumbledore even congratulates 
Harry for what he did in convincing Slughorn.  And, it seems, from 
the above quote, that Harry understood what he was doing, at least 
that he was manipulating Slughorn somewhat by saying Voldemort's name.

Ceridwen.