[HPforGrownups] Young Dumbledore (wasRe: Why Leave Harry at HW at the End of HBP?)

[Karen]

No: HPFGUIDX 148401


On Sunday, February 19, 2006, at 07:50 AM, susanbones2003 wrote:
>
> I realize he had to be less than forthcoming with the Dursleys but
> the things he did with them, they don't seem to be at the level he's
> identifying with LV. He made a bargain with Vernon, that he'd be a
> good boy if he could have his permission form signed, and well, that
> didn't even work out. And he was not after anything in a sneaky
> fashion, it was all above board, a straight deal. And the "Sirius
> the mass murderer" bit hardly qualifies as wheedling information out
> of less-than-forthcoming people. For a laugh almost, he let it slip
> that his godfather was a mass murderer and realized an advantage he
> really hadn't calculated.

kchuplis:

I think he was quite serious in his use of Sirius as a bargaining card 
and he plays it to the hilt at the beginning of GOF. Remember the 
previous summer he had the Dursley's fear of him using magic (even 
though he didn't and couldn't) as his bargaining chip to a degree, 
probably mostly on Dudley as it would get him to leave Harry alone, 
even if he did have to face consequences later. At the beginning of 
OoTP we seem him mercilessly goading Dudley into a temper, which is a 
type of manipulation. Don't underestimate the power of button pushing. 
I sometimes wonder if Harry remembers his own button pushing when he 
sees Snape doing it to Sirius.

susanbones:
> He did use it to his advantage, but it
> just doesn't seem to be, again, at the level of manipulation and con-
> man artistry that he's identifying with LV.

kchuplis:
That is just what Harry says though. He recognizes "a master". He is 
not a master at it, but he's done enough to recognize it. Those are two 
different things.

Susanbones:
> Maybe the fact that he's
> writing a letter to Sirius was very calculated but I just don't see
> Harry doing anywhere nearly as manipulative and calculating as LV,
> at least until he meets Slughorn, gets the Prince's book, or needs
> that memory. Then I see him developing skills in these less-than-
> appealing areas. Felix Felecis gives him such a leg up in this area.
> It seems to introduce him to a level of falsehood and manipulation I
> didn't know he had in him. He plays Slughorn in such an obvious and
> melodramatic way. Then is when, in the pursuit of a good, I saw him
> behave most like LV. It was not pleasant and I don't want to see
> Harry put the end entirely before the means to that end. Then he'd
> lose his humanity, his pure and untarnished soul.
>
>
kchuplis:

It certainly increased his skill at gaining what he wants smoothly, but 
I have to disagree about falsehoods. In fact, as I recall the scene 
several times when Harry sans felix might have tried a wheedle, he 
notes that Felix tells him the truth will get him further. I think it 
happens at least twice in that scene. I don't recall any falsehoods 
except to say Slughorn wanted to pay his respects to Aragog and Harry 
would have said that anyway to Hagrid felix or no felix because he 
would never hurt Hagrid's feelings. It is interesting, however, that 
even playing on truths and not falsehoods really can seem slimy and 
yucky because it is indeed a disturbing little scene.