Small choice in rotten apples

[dungrollin]

No: HPFGUIDX 148463

Houyhnhnm:
I don't think Harry will be able to assimilate the soul fragment
without making difficult choices.  Not all choices involve action or
even physical risk, though. Letting go of anger and viewing others
with compassion is a choice.  I think there is much foreshadowing in
Harry's growing ability to feel compassion, towards Ron, towards 
Luna.

At the end of HBP, he is even able to feel pity for Draco.  And even
some for Tom Riddle.  Maybe this is why Dumbledore spent all his
sessions with Harry reviewing Tom Riddle's history through the
pensieve memories rather than teaching Harry DADA skills.

I think ultimately Harry has to forgive Riddle/Voldemort in order to
destroy him.  What kind of magic this will set in motion I don't 
know.

Dungrollin:
Okay. I'm not denying that love (compassion etc) is destined to play 
a part in book seven (I was desperately hoping the power wasn't 
love, but ... well, these things are sent to try us...), I can see 
that tying in with plot points – Draco, Snape, etc. I'll even grant 
that there should be some forgiveness coming. 

I can't see Harry ever forgiving Voldemort though, because he and 
Dumbledore have made it clear that what drives Harry in his defeat-
Voldy quest is a furious desire for vengeance which is all Voldy's 
fault. Take that away, and where is Harry's reason for going on? Can 
you really see Harry forgiving Voldemort and *then* destroying him? 

Houyhnhnm:
I am thinking of how LV could not bear to continue possessing Harry
when Harry was thinking of Sirius. Maybe the part of Voldemort's ego
that resides in the soul piece will be driven out in a similar manner
and the soul piece will become part of Harry's soul.  

Dungrollin:
My problem with turning the battle into some internal struggle of 
Harry's is this: how could such a process manifest itself as a 
satisfying climax to a series of action-packed children's 
adventures? Since it's so vague, it feels a little too like pulling 
a black hole that you didn't know you had out of your back pocket 
and saying "Ha! I destroy your all-powerful space fleet which is 
about to wipe our last pathetic pocket of resistance off the map!"

There are other reasons I don't like it, too. 
What you and Neri are describing sounds like a kind of spiritual 
journey which is not at all how I've read any of the previous books -
 the bildungsroman aspect of Harry's story is really not near the 
surface at all, to my mind. It's there, definitely, I'm sure that 
there's some realisation, some forgiveness or empathy that comes 
with growing up (it will take 7 books to get Harry where he has to 
be) which will turn out to be vital in the end, but that it's the 
actual manner of offing Voldy... it just doesn't float my boat. 
(Admittedly none of my boats have turned out to be seaworthy.)

Perhaps one of the reasons I don't find it very attractive is that 
books which describe spiritual journeys *of necessity* lack
something. I'm thinking primarily of things like Herman Hesse. 
Siddartha, for example, is the story of one man finding 
enlightenment, but when you read it you don't find enlightenment 
yourself. If JKR could somehow compel the *reader* to forgive Voldy 
as well as describe Harry doing it, then I would bow down and 
worship her until the end of my days, but that's setting the bar 
extraordinarily high, and it ... it just doesn't seem like JKR's 
style to me. She seems to me to demonstrate Potterverse morals by 
inflicting magical punishments on those who choose wrongly, which is 
why I find my scenario interesting. 

Houyhnhnm:
If the other horcruxes have been destroyed at this point, then 
perhaps the survival of LV's unnatural "body" is irrelevant.  Maybe 
he will melt into a mound of brown sugar.

Dung:
LV's body irrelevant? Hmm. I'm not so sure. It's only when Voldy's 
main bit of soul is in a body that the scar connection seems to 
work. Harry had scar-pain and visions to a certain degree when Voldy 
was baby!mort, then much more strongly after the rebodification 
until Voldy started employing Occlumency against him. Harry's scar 
also reacted to Quirrell when he was being possessed, but it didn't 
react to the Diary Horcrux at all. Now that could be because it 
would have been a dead give-away that Voldy was behind the opening 
of the Chamber, but it's also a fact that Diary!Tom didn't have a 
body, so there may be a more interesting thematic interpretation.

Since the scar connection is one of the "uniquely deadly weapons" 
that Dumbledore assures Harry Voldy kitted him out with at GH, I'd 
say that ignoring Voldy's body – and remember "It will take uncommon 
skill and power to defeat a wizard like Voldemort, even without his 
Horcruxes," – might be a mistake.

Houyhnhnm:
Along the way I think Harry will also have to forgive Snape and the
Dursleys.  These will be difficult choices indeed.  Much harder than
getting past a dragon, killing a basilisk, or duelling with 
Voldemort.

Dung:
So in effect, you reckon Dumbledore was wrong, at the end of OotP, 
right? Harry is not limited to the choice between kill or be killed, 
there's a way to worm out of having to choose? It could be that's 
what JKR's going for, that murder is never the only option, there's 
always another way. And I can completely see why you'd like this to 
be the case. 

Dung, previously:
Basically, I don't think Harry would be able to get it all done with
one Avada Kedavra on Voldy. I think that another life will have to
be lost.

Snow:
Except that you may be forgetting that it is inadvisable to create a 
Horcrux with a living thing such as Nagini (or Harry) because they 
have a will of their own. HBP U.S. 506

There is a wide-open space for wiggle room for the author to 
proclaim that even an unintentional-Horcrux!Harry had a will of his 
own so anything can happen as a result.

Dung:
I'm sorry, I don't follow you. How does Harry having free will mean 
that anything can happen? I think that (barring Neri and Houyhnhnm's 
hope that there's some way of turning the bit of Voldy's soul into a 
bit of Harry's soul) the scenario I posted really limits his choices 
to the two I outlined, die innocent or live and sin. How are you 
saying JKR could wiggle out of this? Have I missed something?

Snow:
JKR is the ultimate, isn't she? She may be bad at maths but the way 
in which she combats her expected confrontations (i.e. not all 
deatheaters knew each other) is phenomenal. I'm fairly sure this is 
one of those accounts.

Dung:
Sorry, I must be being thick, I still don't follow you... Could you 
spell it out?

Dungrollin