Harry Cunning or Manipulative?

[justcarol67]

No: HPFGUIDX 148496

Geoff:
><snip> My dictionary presents cunning as being "skilled in achieving
one's  ends by deceit or evasion". <snip>

Jen D:
> <snip>I have been  arguing that in Book 6, especially after seeing
the Slughorn memory, that Harry has a moment where he identifies with
LV, and it's uncomfortably close to admiration for his skills at
wheedling information out of Slughorn and that this admiration of LV
is very uncomfortable for me. I argued that Harry may have done things
that weren't always honest in previous books and situations but I
never understood him to be "aware" that he was wheedling and
manipulating. <snip> What I can not seem to communicate properly to
people <snip> is that in all those situations Harry had never
consciously (according to my reading anyway) been trying to manipulate
or connive and that things he did were of a survival nature, not
anything like the cunning and trickery that LV was already adept at
even as a young man. But and here's my point, it really bothers me
that Harry wasn't repelled by LV's skills with Slughorn. He seemed to
be recognizing a  master at work. <snip> I realize that LV must be
defeated but I hadn't counted on any situation in which Harry might
have to do something unsavory (killing aside) to accomplish this task.
I worried that he might damage his own pure and untarnished soul. 
<snip>

Carol responds:
The funny thing is, Jen, that you were responeing in the first place
to an aside I made about my concern for Harry's whole and untarnished
soul, which I agree is in danger, but not from manipulation and
cunning--from, IMO, anger, the desire for vengeance, and the
temptation to use Dark Curses. (The Crouches have shown where that
path leads--you don't fight Darkness with Darkness, evil with the
weapons of evil, without dire consequences to yourself.)

Cunning, manipulation, and even dishonesty are something else again.
How many times has Harry concealed what he was doing or lied, not only
to Snape but to Dumbledore or even to his friends, in every book? It's
only, as you say, the conscious manipulation that appears to be new
(and I'd be grateful to anyone who can point out the incident Harry
appears to be referring to when he identifies with young Tom as a
"master" manipulator).

*But* I don't think that JKR herself is at all appalled by cunning and
manipulation, by, to quote Geoff's dictionary definition, "[skill in]
achieving one's ends by deceit or evasion." Both Snape and Dumbledore
have been doing exactly this for six books--and now Dumbledore appears
to be encouraging Harry to join their ranks. He can't get Slughorn's
memory by force or even by magic. He has to use his own
resourcefulness to trick Slughorn into giving it up of his own accord,
even if it means getting him drunk to do it. Maybe in this instance
the end justifies the means, but at least the means is not torture or
murder or anything that is outright evil or Dark. Surely manipulation
and cunning won't damage Harry's soul if the lies he has already told
(and cheating on his homework and claiming credit for work that isn't
his own in Potions) has not already done it. Apparently, as long as
Harry hasn't killed anyone and has the ability to love, his soul will
be whole and pure. (I don't happen to like that idea, but it seems to
be what Dumbledore is suggesting.)

This is not the first time, actually, that Dumbledore has attempted to
make Harry feel at ease with the Slytherin side of himself (which may
or may not be the legacy of Voldemort). In Cos he says, "Listen to me,
Harry. You happen to have many qualities Salazar Slytherin prized in
his hand-picked students. His own very rare gift, Parseltongue--
resourcefulness--determination--a certain disregard for rules" (333).
Now DD appears to be going even further and encouraging cunning, a
trait specifically associated with Slytherin by the Sorting Hat in
SS/PS, to achieve his ends. The goal is surely to encourage Harry to
be resourceful and inventive (much as Snape says that his DADA
students need to be) in order to match wits with Voldemort.
Understanding his Slytherin side may just help Harry to find the
Horcruxes, to think as Dark wizards think (as Crouch!Moody ironically
says in GoF) to find the Horcruxes and win the battle against Voldemort.

But it's possible--only possible--that DD may be helping Harry to
understand the Slytherin mentality for other reasons as well. I would
be more sure of myself here if I knew that Harry were returning to
Hogwarts. But Dumbledore and the Sorting Hat and even Nearly Headless
Nick have been advocating the unity of all four house, fearing that
internal divisions will enable Voldemort to destroy the school. (A
school divided against itself cannot stand, to alter Lincoln's words
slightly.) Maybe seeing the Slytherin in himself will enable Harry to
set aside house rivalries and prejudices and help the entire school,
or the teetering and nearly fallen Draco, to fight with him against
Voldemort. (Something more, I fear, will be needed to help him
understand and forgive Snape.)

Carol, remembering that the Greeks regarded the cunning Odysseus as a
hero (and Odysseus, unlike the fearless Achilles, survived the Trojan War)