Harry Cunning or Manipulative?

[Geoff Bannister]

No: HPFGUIDX 148516

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Karen" <kchuplis at ...> wrote:
>
> 
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: susanbones2003 
>    But and here's my point, it really bothers me that Harry wasn't 
>   repelled by LV's skills with Slughorn. He seemed to be 
>   recognizing a  master at work. 

<snipped>

>   kchuplis:
>    
>   I really think we have another case of difference in definition 
of a word; admire. 
> 
>   I found this (no, not the OE, but it is plenty for a quick post; 
if anyone has the OE feel free to put out a more detailed definition):
> 
>   ad·mire (ad-mir') 
> 
>   v., -mired, -mir·ing, -mires. 
> 
>   v.tr. 
>     1.. To regard with pleasure, wonder, and approval. 
>     2.. To have a high opinion of; esteem or respect. 
>     3.. Chiefly New England & Upper Southern U.S. To enjoy 
(something): "I just admire to get letters, but I don't admire to 
answer them" (Dialect Notes). 
>     4.. Archaic. To marvel or wonder at.
>   I believe we are seeing Harry as "to marvel or wonder at" which 
is not to say he holds it in esteem or respect - not in the way I 
think you are worried about. It doesn't mean he is saying "wow, I 
wish I could do that" but rather just saying "well, THAT is an LV 
strength." I agree, Harry has not ever been cunning or underhanded 
about his ability to cajole or get what he needs or wants, but I also 
(myself) see no indication that he is in danger of identifying too 
strongly with LV. Just enough to be concious of his choices, and that 
> occurred as far back as the end of CoS. 


Geoff:
Unfortunately, I didn't have time to reply to susanbones' post last 
night and one of the problems of being in the UK is that the US folk 
decide to wake up while I'm in bed and umpteen messages come in 
overnight. 
:-) 

So, if I repeat other folk's thoughts, my apologies.

I looked up definitions of "admire" in my three usual dictionaries 
and got:
Concise Oxford: "Regard with pleased surprise or approval; express 
admiration of; wonder at, wonder."
Heinemann: "to have a high regard or respect for."
Readers' Digest Word Power (which I use most often): "(1) regard with 
respect or warm approval (2) look at with pleasure"

I do not think that Harry is doing just this. I agree with another 
poster about admiring a sports star - I am admiring Andy Murray's 
success in the San Jose Open almost with jealousy because my tennis 
is beyond description(!) but that's a different matter to Harry's 
view of Riddle.

"It was very well done, though Harry, the hesitancy, the casual tone, 
the careful flattery, none of it overdone. He, Harry, had had too 
much experience of trying to wheedle information out of reluctant 
people not to recognise a master at work. He could tell that Riddle 
wanted the information very, very much; perhaps had been working 
towards this moment for weeks."
(HBP "Horcruxes" p.464 UK edition)

I can see Harry being /impressed/ by this performance but not 
necessarily wanting to emulate the ends for which Riddle was aiming. 
This is a different matter to admiration.

I have always been interested in modern German history and how 
someone like Hitler managed to get where he did in a cultured and 
advanced nation. I have been /impressed/ by the skills he exercised 
in becoming Chancellor and by the strategies he used to so 
successfully overrun Western Europe and promote the course of World 
War 2 for the first couple of years. But I do NOT admire him and do 
not wish to behave in the same way.

To finish, another thought from canon
'Mr.Ollivander fixed Harry with his pale stare......

..... "The wand chooses the wizard, remember... I think we must 
expect great things from you, Mr.Potter... After all, He Who Must Not 
Be Named did great things - terrible, yes, but great."
Harry shivered.'
9PS "Diagon Alley" p.65 UK edition)

Impressed? - yes. Admiring? I don't think so.