Secret Keepers/JKR Poll Question - Confussion

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 148563

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "spotsgal" <Nanagose at ...> wrote:
>
> JKR has answered her FAQ Poll question!  It seems as though, as
> many of us have predicted, when a Secret-Keeper dies, the "secret 
> dies with them."  Meaning that 12GP is still supposedly safe for
> the Order....  This is really the only thing that makes sense;
> after all, the whole idea of the Fidelius charm is a bit silly
> if your secret can be broken by the Secret-Keeper getting run
> over by a bus or something.  

bboyminn:

Well, you point out the very misconception we are trying to clear up.
When JKR says 'When a Secret-Keeper dies, their secret dies with
them...' does she mean that the secret is no longer a secret since the
 Keeper has died, or does it mean that the secret can never be
revealed again since there is no one to reveal it? If we look at what
she says next, we have the answer.

"...or, to put it another way, the status of their secret will remain
as it was at the moment of their death. Everybody in whom they
confided will continue to know the hidden information, but nobody else."

The Secret can only be given away by the Secret Keeper. If the Secret
Keeper is dead then only those people to whom the secret has /already/
been revealed can know it, yet none of them can reveal it, with out
the Secret Keeper, no new people can be let in on the secret. 

For example, if Neville gets involved, there is no one who can reveal
the location of 12 Grimmauld Place to him. Only Dumbledore could do
that and he is dead. Another example; that kills the idea that Harry
will let the Dursleys live at 12 Grimmauld Place because the Dursley
can't find it, they don't know, and there is no one to reveal the
secret to them.

However, Dumbledore may have inadvertently let the secret slip at the
beginning of HBP when he was talking to the Harry in front of the
Dursleys. 

Chapter 3 - HBP - 'Will and Won't' - Pg 49

..."a difficulty has arisen...for us. By us, I mean the Order..."

"Our problem ," he (Dumbledore) continued to Harry, "is that Sirius
also left you number 12, Grimmauld Place"

"You can keep using it as headquarters," said Harry. 

"That is generous," said Dumbledore. "We have, however, vacated the
building temporarily."

...and the conversation continues...
- end quote -

First, by mentioning 'headquarters' didn't Harry give away a secret
that can't be given away, or had Dumbledore already opened the door to
the discussion thereby revealing the secret to the Dursleys and that
is what allows Harry to bring up the 'headquarters'.

To be clear, let us look at Dumbledore's revelation of the secret to
Harry -

"The headquarters of the Order of the Phoenix may be found at number
twelve, Grimmauld Place, London." - by note in OotP pg 58

It seems that the location of 12 Grimmauld Place is not itself a
secret, though it is certainly well hidden as Sirius explains, only
that it is the headquarters for the Order. So, how does that translate
into ways in which the Black House could be revealed? Could you invite
someone over for dinner as long as that invite and the subsequent
actions had nothing to do with the Order of the Phoenix?

Also, 12 Grimmauld Place is NOT NOW the location of Headquarters, does
that nullify the secret since the secret specifically involves
'Headquarters'? Does that mean that the secret and the Secret Keeper
have automatically transferred the secret to the new location? Does
the 'secret' automatically follow the 'headquarters'? Remember, the
secret involves the location of the headquaters of the Order of the
Phoenix, and is only specifically related to 12 Grimmauld Place while
it is acting as headquarters. I speculate that as soon as the Black
House is no longer 'Headquaters', it is no longer secret.

I think JKR thought she was clearing up this problem for us, but
instead she has only made it more complicated. Most of us suspected
that when Dumbledore died, the secret died in the sense that it was no
longer a secret. The Secret Keeper spell was broken. But it appears
that this is not true. The Secret is still secret except to those to
whom it has already been revealed.

But once again, the secret relates to 'headquarters', and 12 Grimmauld
Place is no longer 'headquarters', so does that mean Harry can reveal
it's location to others? He seems to have revealed the 'secret' to the
Dursley without any trouble. Very confusing.


> Christina continues:
> 
> Where is the challenge in figuring out the identity of the
> Secret Keeper and getting the information from him when all
> the enemy  has to do is kill a bunch of people?  ...edited...
> 

bboyminn:

You must remember that when the Secret Keeper dies, the secret is not
revealed. True, as we wrongly speculated, it may no longer be a
secret, but the actual secret itself is not instantly revealed.

For example, if Voldemort had killed Peter, and if the Charm had
worked as we originally and wrongly speculated, the Potter's house
would have been revealed, but Voldemort still wouldn't know that THAT
is where the Potters were. Some one randomly walking down the street
past the Potter's house would have been able to see it, but Voldemort
wouldn't have been any wiser as to which of all the many many
thousands of streets in the UK he should walk down, nor would he know
which house among the many houses on that street, should by some
miracle he find it, was the correct one. As it is, we don't have to
worry about that since the secret is still kept after the death of the
Secret Keeper.


> Christina continues:
>
> And I still wonder what happens to a secret if the secret itself
> dies...that is, did the charm on the Potters break when *they* died
> (although Harry was still alive)?  Or if the charm was more on the
> house, did it break when the house was destroyed?
> 
> Christina
>

bboyminn:

As I said, JKR has only made things more complicated. Keep in mind
that we don't actually know what the secret was related to the Potters
hiding. Was their house the secret, or were they the secret? And as
you ask, when the Potters - the Secret - died, was the house revealed
since there no longer was a secret to keep? When Harry goes to Godric
Hollow, will he be able to see their graves but not their house, or
will he be able to see both or neither? Will Hermione and Ron be able
to see both or neither? 

In the case of Dumbledore, the Secret KEEPER died; in the case of the
Potters, the secret itself died. So where does that leave us? ...other
than confused.

bboyminn/Steve