Secret Keepers/JKR Poll Question - Confussion

[kiricat4001]

No: HPFGUIDX 148574

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <bboyminn at ...> wrote:


> When JKR says 'When a Secret-Keeper dies, their secret dies with
> them...' does she mean that the secret is no longer a secret since 
the
>  Keeper has died, or does it mean that the secret can never be
> revealed again since there is no one to reveal it? If we look at 
what
> she says next, we have the answer.
> 
> "...or, to put it another way, the status of their secret will 
remain
> as it was at the moment of their death. Everybody in whom they
> confided will continue to know the hidden information, but nobody 
else."
> 
> The Secret can only be given away by the Secret Keeper. If the 
Secret
> Keeper is dead then only those people to whom the secret 
has /already/
> been revealed can know it, yet none of them can reveal it, with out
> the Secret Keeper, no new people can be let in on the secret. 
<snip>

> First, by mentioning 'headquarters' didn't Harry give away a secret
> that can't be given away, or had Dumbledore already opened the 
door to
> the discussion thereby revealing the secret to the Dursleys and 
that
> is what allows Harry to bring up the 'headquarters'.
> 
> To be clear, let us look at Dumbledore's revelation of the secret 
to
> Harry -
> 
> "The headquarters of the Order of the Phoenix may be found at 
number
> twelve, Grimmauld Place, London." - by note in OotP pg 58
> 
> It seems that the location of 12 Grimmauld Place is not itself a
> secret, though it is certainly well hidden as Sirius explains, only
> that it is the headquarters for the Order. So, how does that 
translate
> into ways in which the Black House could be revealed? Could you 
invite
> someone over for dinner as long as that invite and the subsequent
> actions had nothing to do with the Order of the Phoenix?
> 
> Also, 12 Grimmauld Place is NOT NOW the location of Headquarters, 
does
> that nullify the secret since the secret specifically involves
> 'Headquarters'? Does that mean that the secret and the Secret 
Keeper
> have automatically transferred the secret to the new location? Does
> the 'secret' automatically follow the 'headquarters'? Remember, the
> secret involves the location of the headquaters of the Order of the
> Phoenix, and is only specifically related to 12 Grimmauld Place 
while
> it is acting as headquarters. I speculate that as soon as the Black
> House is no longer 'Headquaters', it is no longer secret.
> 
> I think JKR thought she was clearing up this problem for us, but
> instead she has only made it more complicated. Most of us suspected
> that when Dumbledore died, the secret died in the sense that it 
was no
> longer a secret. The Secret Keeper spell was broken. But it appears
> that this is not true. The Secret is still secret except to those 
to
> whom it has already been revealed.
> 
> But once again, the secret relates to 'headquarters', and 12 
Grimmauld
> Place is no longer 'headquarters', so does that mean Harry can 
reveal
> it's location to others? He seems to have revealed the 'secret' to 
the
> Dursley without any trouble. Very confusing.

Marianne:

Thanks, Steve, for making my head spin. I wonder if, even though 
Harry mentioned the 'secret' that if the Dursleys were to go looking 
for 12 GP they still wouldn't be able to find it because they were 
told the secret by someone who is not the Secret Keeper.  IOW, does 
it matter if Harry shouted the location of headquarters from the 
rooftops of London, if the secret itself is still locked inside DD?

One worry about 12 GP was whether there was some sort of charm on 
the house that would only allow it to be willed to someone with 
Black blood.  Since JKR made it clear that Sirius could will it to 
anyone he chose, this turned out not to be an issue.  But, DD was 
clearly concerned that Bellatrix might inherit the house, which was 
the reason the Order temporarily vacated the premises.  How would 
that have squared with the Secret Keeper charm had Sirius not been 
able to will the house to Harry?  In other words, can inheritance 
trump the Secret Keeper charm?

 

> 
> > Christina continues:
> >
> > And I still wonder what happens to a secret if the secret itself
> > dies...that is, did the charm on the Potters break when *they* 
died
> > (although Harry was still alive)?  Or if the charm was more on 
the
> > house, did it break when the house was destroyed?
> > 
> > Christina
> >
> 
> bboyminn:
> 
> As I said, JKR has only made things more complicated. Keep in mind
> that we don't actually know what the secret was related to the 
Potters
> hiding. Was their house the secret, or were they the secret? And as
> you ask, when the Potters - the Secret - died, was the house 
revealed
> since there no longer was a secret to keep? When Harry goes to 
Godric
> Hollow, will he be able to see their graves but not their house, or
> will he be able to see both or neither? Will Hermione and Ron be 
able
> to see both or neither? 
> 
> In the case of Dumbledore, the Secret KEEPER died; in the case of 
the
> Potters, the secret itself died. 

Marianne:

I think that perhaps this part is getting needlessly complicated.  
If Peter, the Secret Keeper revealed the secret to Vmort, then the 
secret is essentially over. There was no more secret. Peter broke 
the charm in order to reveal the Potters whereabouts to Voldemort. 
In this case, whether the charm concerned the house or the actual 
persons of the Potters, it no longer mattered because the Keeper 
spilled the beans.

Marianne