DADA Curse-a way to get rid of Dumbledore?

[zgirnius]

No: HPFGUIDX 148855


> Alla:
> 
> Hee. I like this motivation too, since it works with ESE!Snape or 
> Grey! or OFH!Snape also or even if it does not, I STILL like it, 
> just for  the elegance. Bravo, Ceridwen and Jen too. :-)

zgirnius:
Yes, thumbs up for this idea! And I do not see why the idea would not 
work with every possible flavor of Snape, since it is all about 
Voldemort's motivation in making the curse.

Alla: 
> But yes, if Voldemort placed the real curse, which is supposed to 
> play out as described - namely Voldemort's man getting DADA job and 
> doing Dumbledore in, wouldn't it mean that the curse ONLY works if 
> someone who is truly Voldemort man gets the job? 

zgirnius:
Well, as I understood the explanation, the curse wants to get 
Dumbledore out of Hogwarts, period. And it strives to do so every 
year, regardless of the loyalties of the DADA teacher. Since many of 
the teachers are purely useless for this purpose, nothing happens and 
they are removed from the position in hopes someone more useful comes 
along, in various ways. Killing Dumbledore will do, of course, but so 
will lesser means. If Lupin had (horrible thought) managed to bite 
someone that one night, this might have led to Dumbledore's permanent 
removal by the Board of Governors, for example. And incidents in 
other years, as Ceridwen points out, could have (or did) cause 
Dumbledore's removal, though he was always reinstated at the end.

Alla:
>  If Snape only applies for 
> the job for fourteen years to fool Voldemort and in reality he has 
> no intention of ever getting the job, wouldn't it mean that when he 
> does get a job, the circumstances or fate( driven by the curse) 
will 
> not conspire against him and will not lead him to killing 
Dumbledore 
> since he is not really Voldemort's man?

zgirnius:
The curse is always working to remove Dumbledore, and the teacher in 
case it fails, so it could try again with someone new. So it tried, 
and finally succeeded, with Snape. It had some excellent raw material 
to work with in terms of circumstances, in the form of an 
assassination plot already underway (courtesy of Voldemort). 

I wouldn't say this necessarily tells us anyting new about Snape's 
loyalties. After all, Barty Crouch was not led by the curse to kill 
Dumbledore, and he was most fervently Voldemort's man.

> Alla:
> 
> So, basically you are saying that  the curse will work even if 
Snape 
> is not Voldemort's man anymore, sort of like "Imperio" through Dark 
> Mark? Just curious.

zgirnius:
No, it does not work like Imperius, I wouldn't say. I believe that 
the fact that the triggers for the climactic events of PoA occurred 
on a full moon night can be attributed to the curse. It did not 
Imperio Lupin into not drinking his potion, it just provided such a 
great shock to him at the wrong time that he (understandably) forgot. 
But it 'wanted' Lupin to skip a dose because it saw in his 
lycanthropy the perfect means to raise a sufficiently big stink to 
discredit Dumbledore for hiring him.

In Snape's case, if he's ESE!/OFH! and planned to serve Voldemort at 
least in the murder of Dumbledore, the curse made it easy for him. 
All he had to do was show up and say the magic words. If he's 
OFH!/DDM! and didn't really want to kill Dumbledore for whatever OFH! 
reasons/out of loyalty to Dumbledore, it forced his hand.