Hobbsian worlds; Crime & Punishment

[Bruce Alan Wilson]

No: HPFGUIDX 145783

lealess: 
"This is akin to the reason I believe her world is Hobbesian, as 
I understand the word.  The wizarding world is basically brutish 
and nasty.  Perhaps the perception of people as being tainted by 
original sin determines this.  People have limited choices within 
this world, and they almost always act to further their own 
selfish interest.  Only authority can keep the society in order 
and everyone off each others' throats, but authority takes natural 
rights away from people."

BAW:
And this is different from the real world BECAUSE. . . . ?


Jen:
"It was an amusing idea for Filch to cry for the thumbscrews and 
chains, but to actually see such cruelty in action made Snape 
pale in comparison for me. I think the fact he was a known and 
predictable quanitity for Harry after the first class is a 
mitigating factor in my mind: For 6 books Harry's been hearing 
the same needling, the same taunts, the same James complex, the 
same zeros, the same points taken--come on, get some new material 
Severus!"

BAW:
Exactly.  Snape is like a bulldog with no teeth.  He may growl 
and snarl and snap, but he doesn't bite.  The only time he laid 
a hand on Harry was when he found Harry snooping in his Pensive.  
And, if I had found a student reading my private diary--the 
nearest equivalent I can think of in the primary world--I probably 
would have reacted violently, too. 


elfundeb:
"Instead, I think Harry will discover that the key to vanquishing 
Voldemort is love, exemplified by mercy. Voldemort will understand 
that he is wholly dependent on Harry's mercy.  And Harry, being 
pure in heart, will grant it."

BAW:
Harry can't love Voldemort; nobody can love Voldemort.  But, he 
CAN love Tom Riddle.  I have written and posted here a little 
scene in which Harry appeals to what is left of Tom underneath 
the Voldemort persona.  It ends with the Order finding Harry 
embracing a weeping young man, who--if his eyes were not swollen
shut, his nose all puffy, and his face covered with snot and 
tears--would have been quite handsome.  Harry says to them, 
"Voldemort is no more.  But I'd like to introduce you to my new 
friend--Tommy Riddle."


Betsy Hp:
"Now how on earth am I supposed to take your opinions about 
child abuse seriously when you say torturing a child is okay?  
That *is* what you're saying, yes?  Dropping a transfigured 
Draco onto a stone floor from such a hight he actually bounces 
is fine and dandy.  Catching Harry in the middle of a wrong 
doing and calling him on it is abuse.  I'm sorry, but your logic 
completely escapes me."

BAW:
There is no evidence that Draco was in any way harmed by the 
experience aside from a good fright and a bit of embarrassment.  
And nobody ever died of either.

That being said, even by WW standards the punishment was OOT; MM 
came as close as she ever did to telling off a colleague in front 
of students (pre-Umbridge) over it, and I think we can take MM as 
something of the 'conscience' of Hogwarts.


Betsy Hp:
"I'm really uncomfortable with that sort of philosophy.  Rather 
than using rules fairly applied to everybody, some rules are made 
for one sort of person and other rules are made for another sort.  
So, Draco deserves to be physically tortured because of who he is.  
But Neville should never be challenged because of who he is."

BAW:
Right.  Neville is a nice person.  Draco's a jerk.  But Neville 
WAS challenged; remember his transformation from Wimp!Neville to 
KickA@@!Neville in OotP?  And, academically, he was able to pull 
off a respectable number of OWLS.