Special treatment - yes or no

[M.Clifford]

No: HPFGUIDX 145996


> Valky:
> LOL! You and me both, then <g> because I see your argument building  
> off the assumption that the Slytherins *deserved* that win in PS/SS
> which would in turn assume that they worked hard to legally and 
> rightfully gain every single point awarded them and we know 
> unequivocally that they didn't.
> 
> Magpie:
> Err...no it really doesn't build off that assumption.  It just means 
> that when the contest ended Slytherin was in the lead for whatever    
> reason.

Valky:
Yes that is my point. It's not just 'whatever' reason, it's the wrong
reasons, calling it whatever reason and emphasising that Slytherin
unofficially won the contest definitely ignores that their win was not
a fair one, following that is the assumption that it doesn't matter
that the outcome wasn't fair to begin with, I think it does matter. 

The Slytherin House members were all aware that they had gained an
unqualified lead over the rest of the houses through the actions of
Draco, which were essentially malicious, and through having won
Quidditch games in which Marcus Flint had cheated, and through their
head of house giving away points in his *high standards* classes for
mediocre work. Slytherin House was not disillusioned as to how it had
come out the winner, why should they be? And the reason mattered, it
mattered to Ravenclaw and Hufflepuff, why shouldn't it, their
Quidditch teams nursed injuries with points value on them in
Slytherins favour, and so it mattered to Dumbledore. 


Magpie:
> It never entered my mind that they had to have gotten all their 
> points in exceptionally admirable ways.  I would think most of their 
> points were gotten in fairly ordinary ways.

Valky:
You would think that, yes, and they probably did get 'most of their
points' in ordinary ways. But according to canon, at least most of
their lead was ill gotten.


Magpie:
> If losing points over Norbert is the issue, 
> then that's solved by the giving of the points, period. 

Valky:
It's one issue, but not the only issue of course as I have said above. 



Magpie:
> Basically you seem to just be saying exactly what Betsy is seeing, 
> that Gryffindor needs to be given the cup in this way to make it 
> clear that the people in their house are superior to the ones in 
> Slytherin.  

Valky:
No, I am definitely not saying that at all. What I am saying is that I
reckon Dumbledore awarded the cup this way, and was right to, because
the actions of cheating members of Slytherin shouldn't be the deciding
factor in the House Cup Competition, remarkable actions of virtuous
members should be the deciding factor. And he demosntrated it by
constrasting a significator of one against the other. 

Now there is some degree to which we can say that JKR scapegoated the
Slytherins into this role for the purpose of a plot that inspired the
minds of younger readers, I won't throw out that point, but Slytherin
were the house that cheered their ill-gotten win in the context of the
PS/SS story, so scapegoats or not in terms of the series, that was who
they were that day.


Magpie:
> The Gryffindor 
> points should be worth more.


Valky:
Sorry, I didn't get that, could you clarify what you meant.