[HPforGrownups] Re: Special treatment - yes or no

[Magpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 146000


>> Magpie:
>> Err...no it really doesn't build off that assumption.  It just means
>> that when the contest ended Slytherin was in the lead for whatever
>> reason.
>
> Valky:
> Yes that is my point. It's not just 'whatever' reason, it's the wrong
> reasons, calling it whatever reason and emphasising that Slytherin
> unofficially won the contest definitely ignores that their win was not
> a fair one,

Magpie:

No, I emphasized that they had officially won the contest (which is why the 
banners are hanging), and that the winning was fair because they won. 
There's no subplot about a fixed house contest suddenly being made fair.  I 
said "for whatever reason" meaning that we were not told how every single 
point was given out during the year, not to suggest that they bought their 
points on the black market or some other cheating way.  It's not just not 
fair because it's not Gryffindor or because it is Slytherin.  Did they break 
into the hourglass and switch the jewels?  Blackmail teachers?  The teachers 
can do magic.  They're not getting fooled by anybody, imo.

The Slytherins don't seem at all aware that they've earned their lead 
unfairly that I remember, especially throught he actions of Draco Malfoy. 
Draco loses them 20 points for being out of bed at night.  Later the Trio 
are caught by Filch. Part of their sacrifice, I would think, is taking the 
regular consequences of that, which they knew about when they left.

> Valky:
> You would think that, yes, and they probably did get 'most of their
> points' in ordinary ways. But according to canon, at least most of
> their lead was ill gotten.

Magpie:
I don't remember canon that their lead is ill-gotten.  All I'm seeing is 
vague references to Slytherins of course being untrustworthy and assuming 
stuff we know they do into cheating even though it goes on in public and can 
easily be punished through points being taken--and sometimes is.  There are 
lots of teachers at school and they can all take points or not give them.  I 
don't think it's realistic to assume Snape is giving his students a thousand 
points every other day to rack them up, or that he even could do that.  I 
see no reason to think that the teachers--all of them, not just Snape--are 
perfectly in control of the House Cup contest.

I think the other houses don't like Slytherin winning because they don't 
like Slytherin, period.

> Valky:
> No, I am definitely not saying that at all. What I am saying is that I
> reckon Dumbledore awarded the cup this way, and was right to, because
> the actions of cheating members of Slytherin shouldn't be the deciding
> factor in the House Cup Competition, remarkable actions of virtuous
> members should be the deciding factor. And he demosntrated it by
> constrasting a significator of one against the other.

Magpie:
I don't see that he did.   If he wanted to make a point to the Slytherins 
the way to do that would be to talk to them, not be fine with what they do 
for seven years and then suddenly pull a passive-aggressive stunt that seems 
to be about Harry Potter and his house and expect them to get that this is 
some veiled criticism of Marcus Flint playing too rough at Quidditch.

What Dumbledore actually says is "Yes, well done, Slytherin," and then just 
says that there's some late additions of points that must be accounted for. 
Then he never mentions Slytherin again.  I'm really not seeing how 
Dumbledore's grand gesture in PS in any way encourages fair play where there 
was none before, and he certainly doesn't seem to be saying a single thing 
to Slythern except, "Good job kids, but now we must honor greater things 
than your ordinary school honors and also give Harry a big triumphant 
finish."

-m