[HPforGrownups] Merlin-DD - Dumbledore LIVES ...or NOT

[Kathy King]

No: HPFGUIDX 146595

bboyminn:

When it comes to 'Dumbledore lives' theories, I can only ask one
question ...WHY?



Snow:



You hit on the answer a bit later in your post, to bring Voldemort out into
the open.

bboyminn:


What literary purpose does it serve for Dumbledore to fake his own
death. How does that help Harry arrive at his objective? Why would
Dumbledore abandon Harry just when Harry needs him the most? More so,
how and why would Dumbledore choose that particular method to fake his
how death? Certainly there are easier ways.



Snow:



Harry knows he has a mission and with him or without him, Harry does know
what the objective is.

Did you ever take into consideration that Snape's spy role plays an
essential part in the whole plan to vanquish Voldemort?

bboyminn:


The best I can come up with, though I admit it's not too shabby, is
that in that moment on the top of the tower, Snape and Dumbledore
agreed that there was no way out. One way or another Dumbledore was
going to die, either by Draco (not likely), by a Death Eaters (very
likely) or by Snape's hand. So, Dumbledore sent a quick short
telepathic message to Snape that said 'fake it'.



Snow:



Or this was planned from the moment Snape made Dumbledore aware that the
Unbreakable Vow was in place. This could be the very reason that Snape was
irate at the edge of the Forest when Snape told Dumbledore that he took too
much for granted.

bboyminn:


What I am saying here is that Snape appearing to kill Dumbledore
wasn't part of some grand plan or conspiracy. It was a desperate act
in a desperate moment in which all other courses of action yielded a
much worse outcome. So, Snape faked the AK and Dumbledore played
along. Once the ruse was set into play, circumstances dictated that
everyone continue to play along.



Snow:



Who played along? The Order members were all devastated at the news that
Snape Ak'ed Dumbledore. To make everything realistic, Dumbledore couldn't
allow anyone to know, not even Harry for fear of Legilimency from Voldemort,
that he is still alive. If you look at the last time (I think it was the
last time) Harry questioned Dumbledore about why he trusted Snape,
Dumbledore paused as if he was weighing the thought of telling Harry but
thought better of it, why…because Harry never mastered Occlumency so he
couldn't be trusted to know why he trusted Snape in case Harry had a
confrontation with Voldemort.

bboyminn:


So, that explains actions in the moment, but does not explain a long
term literary strategy of continuing this ruse. What could be the
purpose? Could it be to draw Voldemort into the open? To hope that
Voldemort will be over filled with confidence and therefore act in
ways that make him more vulnerable? But is that really a good
strategy? Wouldn't it be better to keep Voldemort laying low in order
to give Harry time to work out the Horcruxes?



Snow:



This could be were Snape plays the essential role! Voldemort isn't going to
go directly for Harry. Wouldn't he take down his alliance first?

bboyminn:


If we are going to justify Dumbledore still being alive, we have to
justify it within the context of the story, and his continuing to live
has to have serve some greater purpose. He can't simply live because
we don't want him to die.



Snow:



Agreed! Haven't quite figured that part out yet but…

bboyminn:


So, If Dumbledore is alive, has he learned his lesson about keeping
Harry in the dark, will he reveal himself right away, so Harry is
aware that he can continue to draw on Dumbledore as a resource? If he
continues to keep Harry in the dark, and simply lurks around in the
background, that doesn't really lend much to the story.



Snow:



How much did it lend to the story really when it happened in OOP? Dumbledore
was gone according to Umbridge but the OWL's reviewer set her straight.

bboyminn:

Also, if it happened in the moment as I described, the how do we
explain the appearance of Dumbledore's protrait in the headmaster's
office and how do we explain the Phoenix Lament. Those are a little
more difficult to fake in the moment.


Snow:



Dumbledore's portrait never spoke and Fawkes would view a death as a death;
you always morn the dead even if they are alive (in the hereafter).


bboyminn:


It's not that I don't want Dumbledore alive. I have fanfiction taking
place in 2015 the counts on Dumbledore being alive, but independant of
that, for it to be true, we have to come up with some way of
justifying it in the literary context of the story, and I can't see
JKR going in that direction.

Just for few thoughts for whatever they are worth.

Steve/bboyminn

Snow:



All thoughts are worthy or we wouldn't be here :)


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