CHAPDISC: HBP8, Snape Victorious

[Cheryl]

No: HPFGUIDX 146665

Discussion questions

1.  This is the first mention of nonverbal spells in the book
***The whole nonverbal thing was quite evident in this book, but it 
just brought up more questions for me.  Apparently there are three 
kinds of casting:  1) Verbal with wand 2) Nonverbal with wand 3) 
Verbal wandless - but what about a fourth possibility?  Nonverbal 
wandless?  We never see done, but if anyone could do it, I would 
expect DD to be able to pull it off.  Once you became an expert at 
nonverbal spells, you would start to work on wandless spells.  How 
hard would it be to progress to nonverbal wandless?  

2.  Harry despises himself for wishing there would be the sound of 
panic, people wondering what had happened to him.  He has always 
hated his celebrity, but in this situation, it might have helped.
***As most celebritys discover sooner or later, there are perks to 
being famous.  This is one of those times when it might actually have 
helped Harry out, and naturally he would wish for it, even if he felt 
guilty about it.  Anything to help get him out of the situation.

3.  Here we see Tonks jump off a moving train...Is this really Tonks?
***I was really hoping for a more sinister explanation to the whole 
Tonks scenario and to find out she was just wallowing in lovesick 
self-pity through the whole book annoyed the heck out of me.  The 
thing that bothered me most about the train scene was - How did she 
know he was there?  She saw the curtains, went inside, and 
said, "Wotcher Harry."  He's still invisible!  Did she magically see 
him in there?  I don't think so!  JKR should have at least had Tonks 
trip over him or something.  She would show a bit of the old 
clumsiness then AND she would have a logical way of finding the 
invisible boy.
  
4.  Some have said that we didn't see enough of Harry grieving for 
Sirius.
***Going back through the Seven Stages of Grief, I'm thinking Harry 
has already been through most of them:  Shock, covered.  Denial, been 
there, done that.  Bargaining, I think this was where Harry ran 
around hoping Sirius had been turned into a ghost.  Fear, he's still 
carrying a bit of this around with him.  Anger, his willingness to 
firmly affix blame to Snape shows that he still has a lot of anger to 
get through.  Despair seems to be the stage that Harry is sliding 
into now.  And frankly, in the last few stages (Fear, Anger, and 
Despair) you don't have a lot of urge to communicate with anyone.  
And for Harry, growing up in a place where he needed to suppress 
nearly every single emotion, pouring out his feelings to anyone is 
going to be difficult.  His upbringing forced him to be a very 
private person and I don't see that ever changing.

5.  I just noticed this when working on this chapter and actually 
reading it in braille instead of hearing audio where I can't tell how 
a sentence is punctuated.  Snape tells Tonks that Harry is "quite--ah-
-safe in my hands."
***I think that was a specific dig at Harry.    

6.  Later in HBP, we learn that Tonks' patronus is now a wolf, and 
we're led to suspect it has changed because of her love for Remus.  
But here at this point, we don't know any of that yet.
***I was wondering how one can tell a glowing wolf from a glowing 
dog?  They would look pretty darned similar.  Even reading this again 
I was sure Snape thought her patronus was a dog in tribute to 
Sirius.  How would he know she was in love with Lupin?  Additionally, 
his "weak" comment didn't refer to the patronus, but to the caster.  
He would see the change itself as weak because (whether dog or wolf) 
it was done from longing and love.  Like Voldemort, I don't think 
Snape has a really good grasp on the whole concept of love.

7.  Whatever you think of that belief, why do you think Harry would 
so easily believe that Sirius would only rush off because 
he was taunted?
***See above.  Anger is one of the stages of grief and Harry needs to 
BLAME someone.  He blames himself.  He blames Snape.  He even blames 
Sirius for being stupid enough to leave the security of 12GP.

8.  Did Snape see that Harry's face was covered in blood?
***I didn't catch this on the first read, but thinking back, I can 
see it unfolding like this:  For some reason, Tonks was too depressed 
to bother cleaning up Harry after healing him.  I don't think the 
patronus message said anything her healing him.  Snape shows up, sees 
Harry bloody and hopes the little sucker WAS injured.  A normal 
teacher would have said, "OMG, you're all bloody!  Are you all 
right?  Do you need healing?"  Even if Harry was gushing blood from 
an obviously smashed nose, I can see Snape sitting back and waiting 
for Harry to ask for help.  "You're late.  Get moving."  "Cadn't choo 
see by dnose is smashed?"  "Hmmmm.  So it is.  Very well then, go to 
the hospital wing."  I think Snape did see the blood and simply chose 
not to comment, figuring that Harry would ask for help if it was 
vital.  Plus, if sweet little Tonks didn't clean Harry up, why should 
Snape?

9.  Do you think Snape intercepted the patronus message before it 
could reach its intended recipient?
***It disturbs me to think that a patronus can be intercepted.  If DD 
is sending a private message to McGonagall

10.  Is there any significance to the fact that Trelawney is at the 
start of term feast?
***I'm sure there is.  Trelawney had a pretty large presence in this 
book, so I'm sure she'll have a big part to play in this before it's 
over.

11.  Toward the end of this chapter, we have two different situations 
with Ron, both that jumped out at me in different ways.  First in the 
conversation with nearly Headless Nick, was this meant to be comic 
relief, or showing Ron's insensitivity?
***I actually saw this more as Ron getting rid of someone snoopy that 
was bothering Harry.

Later, as Harry tells Ron the story of what happened on the train, he 
believes Ron shows his friendship by not 
laughing. Does this show anything about Ron's character, or is this 
just normal for any kid his age?
***I thought it was more odd that Harry expected Ron to laugh.  There 
is nothing funny about being kicked in the face by one of your sworn 
enemies.   Harry's expectation of laughter was likely due to his own 
feeling of stupidity for putting himself in that situation.
 
12.  Throughout the book, Harry asks about Dumbledore's hand, and he 
is repeatedly told that he'll learn what happened later.
***This is JKR's way of torturing the reader.  Either she didn't feel 
like writing out the whole scene or she wrote it and didn't have room 
for it in the book.  I don't think we'll ever hear the story, which 
stinks because we don't have nearly enough information on the 
Horcruxes and I was hoping the story would give us a bit more 
insight.  And Harry, also, of course. 

13.  Here is one of my favorite parts in the book, for surprise 
value, Dumbledore announcing Slughorn as Potions teacher.  How did 
you react when you read Dumbledore's announcement of Slughorn as 
potions master?
***I was as shocked as Harry.  As to why, I'm leaning toward 
Dumbledore putting Slughorn as Potions master so that Harry could 
continue to get potions training, something that might be useful in 
his fight against Voldemort.  He also valued Snape as a teacher, so 
this way Snape would be forced to continue teaching Harry, albeit in 
another position.  I was disappointed that we never had any scenes of 
the actual DADA classes.

14.  Did you think about the DADA curse when you heard that Snape had 
the position?
***More importantly, what was DD thinking about the curse by putting 
Snape there?  Where did he expect Snape to be next year?  Undercover 
with Voldemort?  Teaching potions again?  I wish Harry had thought to 
actually ask these questions of DD when he had the chance.

15.  How do you feel about Harry's savage comment that at least it 
means Snape will be gone by the end of the year?  Did Harry's comment 
about keeping his fingers crossed for another death disturb you?
***In my opinion, Harry hates Snape even more than he hates 
Voldemort.  Let's face it, LV's presence in Harry's life has been 
brief (although life-changing in nearly every instance) while Snape 
has been a living, breathing, in-his-face enemy for five long years.  
They have been enemies since the first instant their eyes met and 
Harry has never altered his initial impression of Snape regardless of 
how many authority figures have tried to change his mind.  When 
someone is a constant irritant, especially someone with power over 
you, it's pretty natural to wish for them to be gone from your lives 
forever.  And mean it.  I think Harry meant it.
 
16.  Do you think Dumbledore's specific mentioning of not wandering 
after bedtime is aimed at the trio in particular?
***Oh yes.  Definitely.  He knows it won't have any effect, but he 
feels it's worth mentioning.

17.  When Harry tells Ron about the things he overheard Draco saying 
on the train, we see more doubt on the part of Harry's circle about 
his suspicions of Draco.  Why doesn't Ron believe that Draco is up to 
anything? 
***Because Harry and Draco have had the mutual hatred thing going for 
five years and neither of them have done anything particularly 
serious to each other.  Let's face it, up to this book, Draco has 
been mostly a big bag of hot air spewing venomous comments into the 
wind.  Whenever they did have a confrontation, Harry usually came out 
on top.  In Ron's mind, this was simply another round in the 
Draco/Harry war, so why take it seriously?  The very fact that it was 
Draco and not some other student made Harry's ideas suspect.  
Unfortunately, everyone around him held the same opinion.

Nicky Joe