The GoF Train Scene (was:Re: Humanity, Kant, Caricatures, and Draco)

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 146740

> >>Betsy Hp:
> > <snip>
> > So no, there was no "jeering and sneering" at the Leaving       
> > Feast. At least, not on Draco's end.

> >>a_svirn:
> Um, yes. I stand corrected. It was muttering and refusing to      
> honour Cedric at the feast.

Betsy Hp:
Well, no.  There was *no* refusal to honor Cedric at the Leaving 
Feast.  Again, this is a popularly believed error, but it is still 
an error.  Draco muttered something to Crabbe and Goyle when 
Voldemort is mentioned.

> >>a_svirn:
> Jeering or, to be more precise, smirking came later – in the      
> compartment of the Hogwarts Express. As well as the infamous       
> comment about Cedric's being the first to go. Does it make 
> any difference?
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
It goes towards my main point, yes.  Draco stands for Cedric, but he 
doesn't stand for Harry.  So it's not peer pressure pulling him to 
his feet.  There's something there.  Something he has to learn to 
deny or push down because Cedric was killed by Voldemort.  And Draco 
is on Voldemort's side, so Cedric must be an enemy.

> >>a_svirn:
> I am really curious how you've worked out that one. How do you    
> even know that Draco is capable of compassion? Or are you working 
> on the assumption that he simply cannot be as bad as he looks –    
> ergo he must be shutting down and boxing off his inherent kindness?

Betsy Hp:
Draco loves his parents. (See HBP)  And since the "Draco is evil" 
arguments have made up facts I really don't think I'm stretching 
things to see something good in him <eg>.  I've never seen Draco as 
an entirely bad child.  Haven't since we first meet him in PS/SS.  

> >>Alla:
> But I doubt that the compassion was there in the first place.
> Basically what you argue is that because Draco cheered for Cedric
> that means that Draco liked him, NOT just cheered for him
> because "Cedric wins means Harry looses", but as you are saying    
> Draco saw something admirable in Cedric? Is that the correct recap 
> of your position? I just don't see how you arrive to that         
> conclusion. Draco IMO would cheer for anybody if that means that   
> the person will beat Harry.

Betsy Hp:
Ooh... *Anybody*?  Like, say Hermione?  No, I'm pretty sure that if 
Draco found something obviously wrong with Cedric (muggleborn, blood-
traitor, etc.) he'd have bagged Cedric completely and gone whole hog 
for Krum.  But Cedric is a pureblood son (or pure enough, anyway) of 
a Ministry wizard who wasn't an Order member or hugely known 
Dumbledore supporter.  The entire point of Cedric is that he's an 
inoffensive character.  There's nothing there to dislike.

> >>Alla:
> I just see no signs in canon that Draco liked Cedric as "Cedric"   
> as I said in my earlier post.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
Draco doesn't need to like Cedric for Cedric.  I'm not going that 
far with this.  It's a niggling thing that Draco's having to face.   
Here's this inoffensive boy that Draco cheered for, that Draco had 
some positive thoughts about, and he's killed by Draco's side.

And then Krum being misused gets piled on top of that, and finally 
Fake!Moody turns out to be on Draco's side.  I doubt Draco would 
have called Voldemort's opening salvo going down this way.

> >>Alla:
> Now, I don't know how Draco felt about Fake!Moody after all, but I 
> am hesitant to consider the revelation that his teacher turned out 
> to be DE in disguise as huge shake - up of Draco's world.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
I'll go out on a limb and guess that Draco had pretty negative 
feelings towards Fake!Moody <g>.  And, yeah, I doubt it was fun to 
realize that the abusive psycho you'd like to have fired is actually 
on your side.  

Betsy Hp