The GoF Train Scene - and beyond (was:Re: Humanity, Kant, Caricatures, and Draco

[justcarol67]

No: HPFGUIDX 146769

Jen D wrote:
> I am missing something! How can we assume Draco knew about Fake!
> Moody? It seems from canon that FM(Barty Crouch Jr. actually) wanted 
> LV to deal sternly with DE's that walked free. It doesn't seem that 
> any of the DE's who were free knew of BCJr.s continued existence 
> either. They were certainly afraid of seeing the dark mark at the 
> QWC which suggests they knew that LV wasn't too pleased with them. I 
> don't know that it's safe to assume at least by the end of GOF that 
> all the DE's are on the same side. Tell me what you know that I 
> don't!

Carol responds:
I asked the same question earlier and didn't receive a satisfactory
answer. Dean Thomas in OoP refers to Fake!Moody as a "maniac" and
Umbridge somehow knows (from old lesson plans??) that he demonstrated
Unforgiveable curses and even used them on the students, but there's
no indication that either of them knows his real identity or that he
was a Death Eater.

No announcement is made that "Moody" has had his soul sucked out by a
Dementor. He simply disappears from view; there's no DADA teacher
after the Third Task, but the real Moody shows up at the end-of-term
banquet. The students apparently have no idea that Fake!Moody put
Harry's name in the Goblet of Fire which he later turned into a
portkey as part of a plot to kidnap and kill Harry. If they knew that,
perhaps they'd believe that Voldemort was back. But the preliminary DA
meeting in the Hog's Head reveals that they know nothing, or almost
nothing, about what Harry has gone through in GoF or any other books.
No one outside the Order even seems to know that Barty Jr. was alive,
including the Death Eaters in the graveyard, who hear him referred to
only as "my loyal servant at Hogwarts."

It's possible that Snape, who was ordered by DD to return to Voldemort
that same night, told Voldemort what happened to Barty Jr. but that
seems unlikely as he had a hand in Barty's undoing. And I doubt that
LV would announce Barty's fate to his fellow Death Eaters. I also
doubt that it was in the papers since Fudge at this point is covering
up all indications that Voldemort is back.

Will someone direct me to any evidence that the students knew that
Fake!Moody was the Death Eater Barty Crouch Jr.? Granted, Dean calls
him a "maniac," but that's not the same as a Death Eater, and Dean in
any case is Harry's roommate, likely to know a bit more than most
other students, especially those in other houses (like Draco). Even
after Harry's expose' in The Quibbler, later republished in the Daily
Prophet, I doubt that they knew (or believed) everything. (How could
Harry prove that a young DE who "died" in Azkaban polyjuiced himself
to pass himself off as a paranoid ex-Auror? And while you're at it,
that an escaped pet rat killed Cedric Diggory?)

And did anyone see "Moody" Imperioing Krum or stunning Fleur? We
certainly don't hear any more about it except for Krum's discomfort at
the end-of-year ceremony, which Harry (not usually so perceptive)
notes because he knows the whole story. Does anyone else (aside from
Dumbledore, Snape, and McGonagall) know what happened? And if anyone
saw Krum Crucio Cedric, why wasn't Krum arrested? (I'm glad he wasn't,
but that's beside the point.)

I find it hard to believe that the whole school, along with parents,
judges and other guests, would spend an hour gazing at a maze in which
they could see nothing. Surely they at least saw the light from the
wands, the wand sparks sent up for the Patrollers, and the jets of
light from the Stunning spells.

Carol, unable to confine herself to a single topic as always!