The GoF Train Scene - and beyond (was:Re: Humanity, Kant, Caricatures, and Draco

[annemehr]

No: HPFGUIDX 146770


Annemehr:
> > Assuming Draco knows by then that Fake!Moody was actually a DE,
<snip>
> 
Jen D:
> I am missing something! How can we assume Draco knew about Fake!
> Moody? It seems from canon that FM(Barty Crouch Jr. actually) wanted 
> LV to deal sternly with DE's that walked free. It doesn't seem that 
> any of the DE's who were free knew of BCJr.s continued existence 
> either.

Annemehr:
Oops -- I didn't mean to imply it was a safe assumption! :D  There was
discussion (inconclusive, but suggestive) of whether Draco might know
that he was a DE, upthread, beginning with post #146640.  I think it's
quite possible that Draco did know by the time he got on the Hogwarts
Express.  I was just considering what might have gone through Draco's
mind if he did know.

I don't think Draco could have known that Barty Jr. hated DEs who
walked free, though, so if Draco knew he was a DE, he'd most likely
think of him as an ally.



Magpie:
> I think Betsy's argument here may be coming across more strongly
> than she means it in terms of it sounding like Draco is very
> conscious of things that he probably isn't.

<huge snip>

> So with Draco I think the point Betsy is making is not that Draco
> was best buddies with Cedric and Krum and secretly cried into his
> pillow over Cedric's death. She's just saying that we shouldn't
> assume he didn't have to repress any feelings of fear or confusion
> over Cedric ending up dead and that this could play into the train
> scene. I think he is able to repress them and postpone any real
> awakening in GoF. In OotP he has to deal with some different issues
> connected to his father's involvement with the DEs. It's in HBP,
> imo, where he's really cracking. But I do think at the end of the
> series I would not be surprised if we are able to see a shape to his
> story that includes things like Cedric's death.

Annemehr:
Ah, okay. If that's the case then I agree completely.

*checks upthread again*

Betsy said in msg. #146633:
> The end of GoF is the first time Draco is faced with what his
> parents' politics *really* means. It must have been a huge shock.
> One I think he did his best to ignore, until HBP made it impossible
> to do so anymore. In some ways, I think Draco's journey is more
> interesting than Harry's.

Annemehr again:
I just took "huge shock" to imply some consciousness of his feelings,
but of course anyone (especially a teenager) can have an overload of
strong, conflicting feelings without necessarily being able to
identify them, especially when one is squelching some of them.

Yes, I am thoroughly interested in many of the characters' journeys:
Seamus's, Susan Bones's, Marietta's, Percy's.  I wish JKR had found a
way to get inside a few more heads for a few more pertinent details. 
I don't know how, but I really hope we'll at least get some real clues
as to what goes on behind Draco's eyes.


Something just struck me when I reread this line from the same post of
Betsy's, referring to the hexing on the train:
> And Harry and friends come through like aces and reassure
> Draco that yes, the enemy are dishonorable and brutal.

Annemehr:
In HBP, the shoe is on the other foot; Harry invades Draco's
compartment and gets hexed and left there, immobile and oozing. 
Harry's reaction, from the beginning of Chapter Eight: "Harry had
never hated Malfoy more than as he lay there, like an absurd turtle on
its back, blood dripping sickeningly into his open mouth.  What a
stupid situation to have landed himself in..."  Not much reflection or
self-evaluation there, but he did at least partly blame himself. 
Granted, it's not much, but it could be a start.

Both boys are going to have to learn to take a second, more clear-eyed
look at people they have always condidered enemies.

Annemehr