How to make Remus look evil , when he is not /Snape in the Shrieking Shack

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 147157

> Pippin:
> So why was he trying to murder/execute Peter, if his desire for 
vengeance
> is no excuse? What's wrong with the dementors, or taking Peter 
> to the castle? Sirius himself suggested that before. 
> 

Alla:

You misunderstood me, I think. IF the plan to execute Peter came to 
the logical conclusion of killing Peter ( let's forget about not 
having the story we have if that would have happened for a second), 
I may have judged Remus and Sirius a bit more harshly, OR not, I am 
not even sure about this hypothetical. But I definitely think that 
after all that Peter did, after all that he made these two guys 
suffer ( Sirius and Remus) I mean, I certainly think that DESIRE to 
avenge the dead Potters and alive, but probably half -insane Sirius 
IS sufficient excuse for wanting to kill Peter. Am I making sense?

I MAY have judged them more harshly ( or not as I said above) if 
they ACTED upon their desire to kill Peter, BUT I certainly NOT 
judge them too harshly for THOUGHTS about killing Peter.


 
> Alla:
> > And I am not sure what are you talking about "Snape's world 
being 
> > turned upside down"? Are you talking about Tower events or 
Shrieking 
> > Shack?
> 
> Pippin:
> I am talking about the Shrieking Shack. Snape has just heard two
> men whom he thinks are murderers trying to feed Harry and co. some
> cock and bull ( or should I say stag and rat) story, about being
> animagi, and  Sirius not working for Voldemort, in the midst of 
which 
> Lupin admits that he has been taking advantage of Dumbledore's 
trust, 
> just as he did when he was a boy. 
> 
> That in itself would be enough to make DDM!Snape furious. But it 
would 
> be staggering for Snape to hear that Sirius was innocent, 
especially 
> if he tried to warn James not to trust Sirius, and that was the 
reason 
> another SK was picked, so he goes into violent denial about 
everything. 

Alla:

Well, Pippin, in that case you will probably be surprised, BUT I 
agree with you. Actually, used to agree would be more factually 
correct. IF Snape whom we saw in Shrieking Shack will turn out to be 
Dumbledore Man Snape , truly loyal to him AND the one who felt 
sincere remorse about Potters death AND in addition to all that 
Snape tried to warn James and Lily not to trust Sirius and had no 
clue about Peter, THEN sure I feel for Snape that night.

I will tell you even more - for quite some time, Shrieking Shack 
used to be one of the few moments in the books, where I used to pity 
Snape ( I mean I wanted to smack him of course, but felt for him 
too).

In fact, I used to pity all of the  participants of the events that 
night.

Here, I thought, three guys, who were all hurt so very badly in the 
different ways by the events which occurred twelve years ago and who 
all went ballistic, basically insane because their pasts came to 
hunt them. I always felt that Sirius had the most objective reasons 
for going ballistic because he just spent twelve years with 
Dementors, BUT I absolutely thought that Snape ( loyal to 
Dumbledore, truly remorseful Snape ;)) has enough reasons to not be 
quite sane that night too.

SO, I think that evaluating Shrieking Shack scene on its own, I was 
being quite consistent, really. The worlds of Sirius, Remus, and 
Snape and of course Harry COULD have been turned upside down.

Except that ever since OOP Snape's picture started shifting right in 
front of my eyes. NO, of course I did not truly doubted Snape 
loyalty to the Light yet, I am NOT that good in making 
predictions :). Except when Harry started feeling worse after 
Occlumency lessons, I started having my doubts .... sometimes. But 
of course this is Harry we are talking about, and he is always wrong 
about Snape, right? Right? So, I pushed my doubts far away and they 
were not that big, really.

Except that after rereading Shack scene I started doubting that 
Snape TRULY did not have any clue about Peter . IMO he was standing 
there long enough that he could have heard about animagus 
transformations. Yes, I know it is ambiguous, but I think it is a 
possibility.
So, Snape who thinks that Sirius is a murderer, I can feel for and 
while dislike, still sort of understand his insane desire to feed 
innocent man to dementors. But Snape who may KNOW that Sirius is 
innocent, and Peter is not, NOPE nothing excuses what he wanted to 
do to Sirius and Remus, in my opinion of course.

I also started not being sure of Snape warning James about not 
trusting Sirius, because really all we have is "too arrogant to 
believe that he may be mistaken in Black" (paraphrasing, so 
apologies for possible misquotation)

It can mean anything - FOR EXAMPLE - it cam mean that somebody else 
went to James and tried to warn him about Sirius and Snape LEARNED 
about it.
 
And of course HBP came and honestly, I think I have sufficient 
reasons to greatly doubt Snape loyalty to Dumbledore. yes, I know 
all the arguments for him being loyal, but to me the fact that 
Dumbledore is not living anymore ( IMO of course) speaks greatly 
against it.

And of course we have Snape supposed REMORSE which had been argued 
many times. The only problem I see with it is that Snape seems to be 
strangely silent on that subject. So, I think I have sufficient 
reasons to doubt that his remorse ever existed in the first place.

To go back to my original point - the world of Snape, whom I 
described in the beginning surely could have been turned upside down 
and I would be lenient for him, except that I am not sure at all 
that such Snape ever existed.


> Betsy Hp:
> I'm curious, how many people on this list think a character will 
be 
> revealed as ESE in book 7?  I've always assumed that JKR will 
throw in 
> an all mighty twist and have someone that Harry trusted turn out 
to be 
> ESE. Whether it's a Weasley (a twin!), or a member of the Hogwarts 
> teaching staff (McGonagall?), or a Gryffindor he'd always thought 
was 
> decent (erm... Collin?), I'm expecting some sort of dun-dun-DAH 
moment 
> complete with "I've always despised you!" and "No, it can't be!".
><SNIP>

Alla:

Not me, no. I am  not expecting any major characters to turn out to 
be ESE!.  I think  there is enough to be dealt without additional 
villains uncovered. I am expecting DAH-DAH moments about Snape and 
how Harry will defeat Voldemort ( some simple elegant solution), I 
don't think that book seventh will have major mystery element 
in 'Who is the villain" and I am quite OK with it.

I am not expecting Lupin, Twins or Mcgonagall to be Evil, not at all.

The only thing I won't exclude is sort of a minor betrayal, although 
even such plot development is not a given, IMO.

So, I would leave Colin or any secondary character on the list for 
possible ESE!persons.

JMO,

Alla