Plan for events on the Tower (was Re: Do any list members think Dumbledore might

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 147170

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, Maria Vaerewijck
<maria8162001 at y...> wrote:
>
> Julie:
>   
> >> So I agree that there was no plan for the specific events on 
> the Tower, just a contigency agreement about who would live or 
> die if the worst possible thing came to pass. Which it did. <<
> 
> 
> maria8162001:
> I don't think there was no plan about the events in the tower. I 
> think we are forgetting or overlooking one or 2 important things. 
> The reason, I believe that everything that happen on the tower 
> was all planned, is first, it was on that evening that DD chose
> to asked Harry to accompany him to look for the horcrux. ... 
> Second, if it wasn't planned, why did Snape stun or attack Prof. 
> Flitwick when he came to fetch Snape to help fight the death 
> eaters? And how did he know directly that DD, Draco and some 
> DEs were on the tower? ...edited...
>   
>  
>   maria8162001
>


bboyminn:

Pardon my sarcasm, but let's look at this brilliant plan of
Dumbledore's from a feasibility perspective.

So, Dumbledore planned for the Twins to throw Montegue into the
Vanishing cabinet so Montegue could discover its secret. Then he
planned for Montegue to blab that secret to Draco who in turn figured
out what it meant and blabbed to Voldemort who in turn set Draco the
task of fixing the Vanishing Cabinet. Then on top of that Dumbledore
planned for Voldemort to give Draco the additional task of killing
Dumbledore. 

So, Dumbledore further manipulated the situation so that on one
specific night, Draco would magically succeed at fixing the cabinet
and the Death Eaters would be standing by to enter the castle. Mean
while, Dumbledore drew Harry away from the castle on some hairbrained
chase of a Horcrux that didn't exist, he poisoned himself, flew back
to the castle just in time to find the Dark Mark and a fight in progress.

Then Dumbledore planned for McGonagall to send Flitwick to fetch
Snape, he planned for Snape to disable Flitwick. Then he planned for
Snape to rush to the top of the tower to kill him. 

That's pretty damn excellent planning if you ask me. It is wonderful
how Dumbledore was able to get all those Death Eaters, Draco, the
Vanishing Cabinet, and Voldemort to cooperate with his plan.

Yes, I am being sarcastic, but I have to ask, where is Dumbledore's
plan? Exactly what part of this did he plan and control? How could
Dumbledore possibly create a plan that involved the cooperation of
Death Eaters and Voldemort?

I believe there were some general contingency plans, I believe
Dumbledore and Snape in conversation set priorities. But I simply
can't fathom Dumbledore and Snape sitting around coming up with as
wacky and hairbrained an idea as this. 

I don't believe that Dumbledore, far in advance, told Snape to kill
him. I do believe that Dumbledore impressed on Snape that Harry was
the top priority and that he should be protected at all cost. That
Harry's life was far more valuable than even Dumbledore's. 

When the events at the top of the tower occurred, Snape was simply
acting out obvious priorities and working the situation to the best
advantage. Notice, that regardless of Snape's true loyalties, his
action were to the best advantage of all concerned. That's the beauty
of this well crafted scene. Snape could be loyal to anyone or no one,
the scene gives us clues, so we can guess, but we can't really know
until the last books is published.

However, that said, the sequence of events is just to completely and
totally unlikely to have been planned in advance by Dumbledore. In
that moment, there could have been some Legilimens, and Dumbledore
could have impressed on Snape that Draco and Harry must get away at
any cost, and 'any cost' meant sacrificing himself. In that moment,
Dumbledore's death was the path of least resistance. It was the path
of least immediate damage and the best long term outcome. 

That makes both Snape and Dumbledore casualties of war. In war people
die, that is a hard and terrible fact. In this war, Dumbledore died,
but he died for a purpose, both short term and long term. Snape did
what spies do, he chose the path that maximized the situation, and
minimized the destruction.

If people think Dumbledore had a plan, if people think Dumbledore and
Snape conspired to kill Dumbledore, I'd like to hear a logical
analysis of this plan and how it came about. It is easy to say
Dumbledore planned for Snape to kill him, but I would like to hear the
details of how that particular plan came into being, as it seems a
very unlikely plan. 

Again, I can see general contingency plans, I can see a setting of
priorities, but I simply can not see Dumbledore conspiring to that end.

Just passing it along.

Steve/bboyminn