How to contstruct an ESE!plot - ESE!Lupin

[spotsgal]

No: HPFGUIDX 147249

> Pippin:
> I picked Lupin for my test, not because I saw treachery in him,
> but because, in her consideration of who might betray Dumbledore,
> another poster had listed all the characters who were close to him,
> one after the other, with one exception. She had put Lupin and 
> Sirius on the same line. 
> 
> I began to wonder what JKR was trying to accomplish
> by associating these characters so closely that people thought of
> them as a unit. Usually authors try to make their characters as
> different from one another as they can, conflict being the engine
> of drama. I began to wonder if Lupin mightn't benefit, as it
> were, from innocence by association.

Christina:

There are a great many characters that are associated together by
fans.  The Weasley parents (heck, the Weasley *twins*).  James and
Lily.  The trio (we even have a cute little name for them).  Fans
might associate Lupin and Sirius because they are friends, but JKR
almost never lumps them together this way.  In looking at nine
different interviews she gave where she's mentioned Lupin, only once
does she put him and Sirius together (she was asked her opinion on PoA
in relation to the other books, and she said that she likes it a lot
because it has Lupin and Sirius, who she is "very fond" of).  The
other 8 interviews have JKR talking about Lupin independently, usually
involving JKR gushing about how much she loves Lupin, what a great guy
he is, and how happy she is that her fans like him too.  If she could
meet anybody in person, she would choose Lupin.  If she could have one
teacher from the books teach her children, she would choose Lupin. 
Now obviously JKR thinks carefully about what kind of information she
wants to give out to the public, but I just can't see her saying "Oh
good!  I'm glad..." when a child expresses how much she loves Lupin if
JKR is planning on making him this unbelievably evil character that
you envision.  Very few other characters get such praise.  JKR only
mentions Lupin's weaknesses in one of the chats, whereas it wouldn't
have seemed strange at all for JKR to talk about Lupin by pointing out
his flaws or simply replying with, "Yes, he's very fun to write" (the
way she has done with other characters).

But that's actually not my main issue here, because some people do see
JKR as somebody who is actively crafting her message to trick us. 
I've never understood people who find the need to give Lupin's
character a "point," because I think he has plenty of value.  You
mentioned conflict being the engine of drama, and making characters as
different as possible.  I'd like to point out the only instance I can
find of JKR talking about Lupin and Sirius as they relate to one
another (from her website):

"Sirius is brave, loyal, reckless, embittered and slightly unbalanced
by his long stay in Azkaban. He has never really had the chance to
grow up; he was around twenty-two when he was sent off to Azkaban, and
has had very little normal adult life. Lupin, who is the same age,
seems much older and more mature."

Lupin and Sirius *are* very different, probably as different as two
people can be.  Lupin serves as a balancing force for Sirius.  Their
"fatal flaws" are opposite from one another - Sirius has a tendency to
be reckless and is action-oriented, while Lupin prefers a passive and
thoughtful approach (which often leaves him overly static).  The fact
that they are around each other a lot only serves to emphasize their
respective qualities.  It starts even in the Shrieking Shack, as
Sirius continually tries to move ahead with his plans of killing
Peter, while Remus is constantly holding him back.  Lupin's maturity
serve to emphasize how "stuck" Sirius is - emotionally, the man is
still 22.

Lupin also has extensive plot-related reasons for existing.  During
PoA, he serves as the DADA teacher (there obviously must be one, and
his story must be important to the book).  He was also needed to serve
as somebody who could diffuse the SS incident.  He got HRH to listen
to him, slowly convincing them that Sirius was innocent.  Without his
presense, there's no way the book could have ended with Sirius
escaping, because no matter what Sirius said or did, the kids would
never have believed him.  

The next question that one might ask is why Lupin pops up again in
OotP.  Well, first of all, a few characters pop up again for no real
reason, to flesh out the Order (Mad-Eye Moody, for example), along
with some new minor characters (Poor Emmeline Vance!).  

Secondly, Lupin is needed to fetch Harry from Privet Drive.  Harry is
reluctant to trust the visitors at first (when Moody calls out to
him), but his anxieties are soothed by hearing Lupin's voice.  Harry
trusts Lupin, and so the mission to get Harry goes smoothly.  It works
the other way around, also.  Lupin is the only one in the Advance
Guard that has had personal contact with Harry, and he answers Moody's
fears of Polyjuice by asking the Patronus safety question.  Sirius
needed to stay in 12GP, so he obviously couldn't fulfill this role. 
Arthur and Molly are new members of the Order, and Dumbledore isn't
speaking to Harry.  Lupin is the only person that Harry would trust
without question.

We also don't know the full significance of the Prank yet, either,
which requires both Sirius and Remus, of course.

JKR has killed one Marauder (James), established another as a traitor
(Peter), and supposedly has some good reasons for killing off another
one (Sirius).  And yet, there is so much we don't yet know about James
and Lily (particularly Lily, about whom we know next to nothing).  I
would say that Lupin's continued presense in the series will serve to
supply Harry with crucial information, and/or accompany him on his
journey to Godric's Hollow.  This makes even more sense when you
consider the fact that Lupin was largely absent in HBP - the secrets
aren't ready to come to light yet.  It all makes sense, so I don't see
a reason to give Lupin an additional role within the series.

> Pippin:
> I was reading a book at the time on how to construct mystery 
> stories, and I thought, suppose PoA was a mystery and Lupin was
> the villain, what was his crime? The book said that the author
> must plant a clue to the crime in the sleuth's second interview
> with the villain....<snip>

Christina:

There are certainly some elements of the mystery style in JKR's books,
but she borrows from SO many styles that I don't see how it's possible
to start making predictions like this from them, based on such
specific "rules" of mystery writing.  JKR plays around with mythology,
religion, the Hero's Journey, the British school tale, and many other
story constructions.  She also sometimes does things just because she
wants to, without deeper meaning.

> Pippin
> There was the mystery of his transforming outside the Shrieking 
> Shack, which didn't make sense if Lupin's
> transformation was unplanned and couldn't be timed, but 
> made perfect sense if it was.

Christina:

Even under the wolfsbane, werewolves transform with the full moon. 
There's no way to get around that, and this isn't a mystery any
longer.  JKR addressed the timing of Lupin's transformation in a
Scholastic chat.

> Pippin:
> Peter should have known that James's friends would go mad and 
> seek revenge? After twelve years? And Lupin wasn't mad, the 
> whole point of discrimination against werewolves being mere
> prejudice is that when they're not transformed they're just 
> as much in control of themselves as other people are. 

Christina:

I don't understand why desiring revenge necessitates Remus and Sirius
going "mad," or why we even have to talk about possible motives behind
it.  Peter betrayed James and Sirius.  In a government system that
allowed Sirius to rot in Azkaban for 12 years (and one that ordered a
Dementor's Kiss for him), how trustworthy would *you* be that justice
would prevail in the end?  The desire for revenge may be wrong, but I
don't find it at all surprising that Remus and Sirius reacted this way
(and Peter shouldn't either).  Some mention was made of Sirius having
an excuse because of his time in Azkaban, but I think it's likely that
he was planning on killing Peter that night in 1981.  He tells Hagrid
that he "won't be needing" his beloved bike anymore, meaning he either
planned on dying in the conflict with Peter or killing him and being
sent to Azkaban.

> Pippin: 
> But Lupin is a good guy! Except...there ain't no such animal.
> There are saints, maybe, but Lupin obviously isn't one of 
> them, so who's to say his flaws could not destroy him?..<snip>...The
> characters do change, they grow, they learn, they die -- and they 
> fail.

Christina:

Well, yeah.  Every character is loaded with flaws, which is actually
one of the reasons I like the series.  But just because the characters
have flaws doesn't mean that these flaws will manifest themselves by
turning to Voldemort.  James was most certainly flawed.  So is Sirius,
Harry, Hermione, Dumbledore, etc, etc, but I don't think that their
faults will make them ESE.

> Pippin:
> Voldemort is apparently the only adult wizard who is willing to help
> the Giants and Goblins fight for their rights. Wouldn't he help the
> werewolves, too?

Christina:

I think you are giving Voldemort way too much credit here.  Sure, he
might *say* "join me for your rights!" but do you really think that a
man who bases his entire regime on the concept of pure-blood supremacy
truly respects these minority groups, or truly wants them to gain
their rights?  He is taking allies where he can get them (and some of
the groups, such as the giants, are powerful allies indeed).  I think
it's safe to say that even with a Voldemort victory, I highly doubt
werewolves would be given the freedoms that Voldemort promises.  I
think Lupin is smart enough to see through that (and I'll come back to
this in a second).

> Pippin:
> The very curious discrepancies between what Peter Pettigrew is
> supposed to have done and his native abilities. And isn't he
> exactly the sort of person Voldemort likes to frame -- someone who's
> just barely tolerated, friendless or nearly so. Did any of the
> Marauders really like him except for James?

Christina:

Where do you get that idea?  I don't see Peter as somebody who is
"just barely tolerated, friendless or nearly so."  I think that's
mostly a fanon invention.  In the Moody picture that everybody is so
fond of analyzing, Peter isn't just sitting with James, he's sitting
in between James and Lily (who are "beaming").  He takes a bit of flak
in the Snape's Worst Memory chapter, but a lot of people are playfully
picked on in their teenage friend groups, particularly when they are
boys.  Sirius is a bit tactless with him, but he seemed to be that way
when he was a teen.  Sirius and James obviously trusted Peter enough
to give him the Secret Keeper job.

I don't think Voldemort has framed a great many people, so I'm not
sure where you're getting that from.  The only person I think that was
really framed in the series was Sirius, and he was charismatic and
popular.  It was his recklessness in going after Peter that was
exploited by the Dark side, not any lack of friends.
 
> Pippin:
> It takes a fair bit of analysis to come up with a theory like this, 
> and why should anyone take the time, unless they're an HP fan with a
> thing for puzzles and an unwillingness to be satisfied that Snape is
> the one. But perhaps I'm not the only one.

Christina:

Well, I'm certainly not an advocate of ESE!Snape.  I've generally been
ignoring those parts of your posts, because I prefer DDM!Snape
already.  I actually don't think that anybody will come out to be ESE
in Book 7.  Book 7 belongs to Voldemort.  I don't think that an ESE
plot is necessary in constructing plot twists - I certainly expect
many of those.

> Pippin:
> But the werewolves aren't doing so well.
>
> "I bear the unmistakable signs of having lived among wizards,
> you see, whereas they have shunned normal society, and live on
> the margins,stealing--and sometimes killing--to eat" HBP ch 16
>
> Lupin goes on to say that Voldemort is offering the werewolves
> a better life, and that it is hard to argue with Fenrir out there.
> Fenrir, we find, is not starving. He's "a big, rangy man[...]whose
> Death Eater's robes looked uncomfortably tight." -HBP ch 27
>
> I suppose that young Lupin was kept in as much ignorance over
> the plight of other werewolves as we were. Imagine how it would
> feel to find out the society you were desperately trying to make
> yourself a part of was colluding in the oppression of your own
> people. 

Christina:

If the werewolves are forced to steal and kill to eat, it is because
they chose to.  Lupin says that they have "*shunned* normal society,"
implying a conscious choice.  Fenrir teaches the werewolves under his
care that they should be *proud* of their werewolf blood.  He tells
his followers not that werewolves deserve rights, but that they
deserve, "blood...we ought to revenge ourselves against normal
people."  The werewolves don't want to live in harmony with wizards,
they want to "create enough werewolves to overcome the wizards." 
Lupin says that werewolves think that their lives will be better under
Voldemort, not that they will have more rights.  It's a subtle
distinction, but a very important one.

And just what has Voldemort promised Fenrir in exchange for herding
the werewolves?  Rights to hold jobs?  Clothes?  Food, perhaps, so the
poor werewolves don't starve?  No.  Voldemort is offering Fenrir
"prey."  Voldemort doesn't care about werewolves; he is using them as
a threat - "Voldemort has threatened to unleash him upon people's sons
and daughters; it is a threat that usually produces good results."

Furthermore, it is Lupin that is explaining all of this, so obviously
he understands what is going on in the werewolf-Voldemort alliance. 
Voldemort is getting a tool to threaten people with, and Fenrir is
getting the opportunity to infect more werewolves.  It sounds as
though Remus suffers no delusions about how much Voldemort wants
werewolves to have their "rights."

> Pippin:
> But even if Dumbledore could protect Lupin, how could he protect
> the other werewolves? If Lupin had made friends with some of them,
> and Voldemort was threatening to kill them, as he threatened to
> kill Draco's family...James and Lily had the whole Order to protect
> them. The werewolves didn't have anyone.

Christina:

It doesn't sound to me as though Lupin is making friends with the
werewolves.  They seem to actively dislike and suspect him:

"However it has been difficult gaining their trust.  I bear the
unmistakable signs of having tried to live among wizards, you see..."

The werewolves are proud of their lycanthropy.  Denying or being
ashamed of it is a big no-no.  So is trying to live among the wizards
they have shunned.  I don't think Lupin would have a very big fan club
in the werewolf world.

And IF the werewolves were involved in VWI, and IF Lupin was sent to
spy on them, and IF he did come to be friendly with a few, and IF
those people felt threatened by Voldemort (wow, that's a lot of
'ifs'), then I see no reason why Dumbledore couldn't protect them. 
Remus mentions trying to actively convert werewolves to Dumbledore's
side.  If he filled the same role in VWI as he does now, he would have
been trying to get werewolves to abandon Fenrir then also, presumably
under Dumbledore's orders.  Your parallel of Draco's family misses the
point - Dumbledore offered to protect the Malfoys (even though they
were a confirmed Death Eater family)!  Why would he not have offered
the same chance to werewolves that Remus might have met that were
eager to abandon Voldemort?

> Lucianam:
> I'm partial to the ESE!Lupin theory, because not only it fits in the
> Big Plot (I remember reading in one of Pippin's posts, what is the
> excuse for two good grown ups around Harry? It's more logical if one
> of them is evil)

Christina:

I already addressed my distaste for assuming that Sirius and Remus
share the same role (because they absolutely do not - and there are
many good grownups that surround Harry), but I'd like to comment on
the fitting into the Big Plot.  I personaly don't think it does, but
the problem with ESE!Lupin (and many other ESE theories), is that no
matter how well an idea might fit into the canon, fitting into canon
is not the same as canon support.  Would it be really cool to have
Lupin involved in the Diary plot?  Maybe, but there's no canon that I
see actually supporting it.  

JKR could have made scenes involving Lupin MUCH more ambiguous if she
really wanted to leave herself wiggle room to make him ESE in the end.
 She could have had Harry trip on the stairs while he was running to
Sirius, only seeing the jet out of the corner of his eye.  She could
have played with tenses when Lupin revealed the identity of Wormtail,
or had him interrupted.  Instead of jumping at the chance to gush
about Lupin in interviews, she could treat him as she does most other
characters.  She could have made a point to say that Voldemort was
supplying the werewolves with food and clothing, and was promising
them rights to schooling and jobs, an issue she very carefully
sidesteps.  She could have made Lupin more critical of Dumbledore. 
She could have left his reaction to DD's death out of the book
altogether, or made it closer to Arthur's.  She could have made the
other Order members a bit more wary of Lupin, instead of making them
willing to follow him as a leader.  And on, and on.  These would have
been real clues for the theory, and yet they would have been subtle
enough that the Big Reveal would still have been shocking.  And yet,
JKR doesn't do it.

Christina