VA/H=Mx13+RP? Snape's Culpability?

[Jen Reese]

No: HPFGUIDX 147337

Pippin: 
> Think of this, too. Dumbledore has now conveyed the prophecy to
> Harry. If Harry gets himself killed trying to fulfill it, will his 
> death be Dumbledore's fault? Surely not.

Jen: I rearranged the post just to be very clear up front I'm not 
arguing the issue of Snape vs. Peter here. My own opinion is that 
Peter and Voldemort were primarily responsible for the Potters deaths. 
Nothing else to add on that point from me. 

Pippin:
> Dumbledore is telescoping events here. Voldemort could not possibly
> have decided to hunt Harry as soon as he heard the prophecy, since
> Harry had not even been born at the time. Pregnancy being what it is,
> Harry and Neville could as easily have been born a few days later,
> in August, and Voldemort would no doubt have decided the prophecy
> couldn't mean either of them.

Jen: See, here's what I don't understand. You say Dumbledore is 
telescoping, Steve mentioned Dumbledore is basing his 
interpretation 'after the fact, but we must look at what Snape knew in 
the moment,' Carol said: 

"And in the limited time available, he could not have come to his own 
tentative understanding of what the partial Prophecy might mean, much 
less anticipate how Voldemort would interpret it and choose to act on 
it. Canon *does* support that interpretation--unless you choose to 
believe that Dumbledore is wrong, in which case my arguments will 
continue to fall on deaf ears."

So far most people don't seem to believe Dumbledore said exactly what 
he meant and meant what he said: Snape knew *a* child was involved 
when he overheard the prophecy. Not Harry, *a* child. Why is it so 
hard to take Dumbledore's words at face value here, so difficult to 
believe Snape understood the part of the prophecy he overheard but 
didn't know who it referred to? That his remorse came AFTER he learned 
how Voldemort interpreted the prophecy to mean he would target the 
Potters?

I'm pretty much a DDM!Snape person (with some wavering) and believe 
it's perfectly possible Snape understood *generally* the information 
he was delivering to Voldemort because such a scenario could tell us 
more about Snape's characterization and arc: At that time in his life 
he may have put great value on the sort of thing Draco mentioned 
valuing in HBP--glory, honor above other DE's, praise from Voldemort. 
If so, then Voldemort's interpretation caused a monumental shift in 
Snape. Before the revelation Snape was not concerned by who would be 
affected even if it was a child, but after Voldemort's interpretation 
he was MOVED to feel great remorse, a signal that whatever humanity he 
may have submerged to serve Voldemort had opened up inside him again. 

I think that's a valid interpretation even if people don't agree with 
it. It fits the way we've seen DE's talk about and to Voldemort, it 
fits with Snape because he is able to compartmentalize his feelings if 
he learned Occlumency as well as he did. Personally it fits better for 
me than some other explanations because it allows for how Snape was 
able to be a DE by shutting down his humanity and that once he was 
able to feel remorse again for his actions, he channelled that same 
compartmentalization into something useful by learning Occlumencey and 
becoming a superlative spy. The other intepretation lends itself to 
the good little soldier who simply repeats what he learned to his 
superior. If someone wants me to drag up canon for why I don't see 
Snape fitting this mold, I gladly will. 

zgirnius:
> While the order and the words were of course chosen by Rowling, she
> put them in Dumbledore's mouth. So we might consider why HE would
> make the statements in the order in which they were made. And he
> might have stressed the first point to impress on Harry that it was
> certainly not out of his animus for Harry's parents that Snape
> reported the prophecy to Voldemort. Since he could not possibly have
> known who would be the target of Voldemort.


Jen: That's true. I'm not sure what that says about the whole issue of 
whether Snape understood the part he did overhear? But then my brain 
is fried at the moment and I'm going to call it a night <g>.

Jen R.