DD trust in Snape again. LONGish

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 154716

>> wynnleaf
<HUGE SNIP>
 Is it what you
> really mean that regardless how many lives Snape saves, he does it 
for
> Evil purposes? 

Alla:

Heee. Yes, sometimes I am very annoyed at myself for the awkward 
ways my arguments come out.

More or less you are correct, I think that EVERYTHING Snape did "to 
help" Harry can be argued that Snape did for if not evil, but then 
self-serving purposes and that fits very well with Snape's 
explanation to Bella of biting his time and not wanting to loose 
Dumbledore's protection.

Does it mean that it is necessarily true? No, of course not I can be 
completely wrong, but in light of how Snape character reads to me 
that is how I see it now.

Besides, except saving Harry's life in PS/SS ( I call it an attempt, 
because Snape sure did not let Harry fell, but he was unable to stop 
the curse either, till Hermione made a fire and forced Quirrell to 
stop unwillingly) to me none of the example you gave is a definite 
SNape's "doing something" to help.

Warn Order about MoM? Except the time delay that Neri so brilliantly 
argues.

Come with Dumbledore and Mcgonagall to stop Crouch? Yes, except 
Dumbledore did all the work, didn't he? Snape just went to bring the 
potion, etc, etc.


Snape COULD have done all of it for good purposes and even if he 
genuinely wanted to save Harry, I would still give him a cookie, BUT 
if Snape did it for self-preservation, no, I don't think it shows 
that he is good.



> > Alla:
> > 
> > Um, not sure about Harry :), but I for example take a great deal 
of 
> > confidence in Dumbledore's "FACTUAL' opinions and very little 
> > confidence in his emotional opinions , in his judgments about 
> > people, since both JKR and DD said that he makes mistakes.
> >  
> 
> wynnleaf
> Yes, I agree about *opinions.*  I don't necessarily think Harry 
should
> trust Snape just because DD does.  However, in this case we're not
> talking about opinions, but facts.  DD relates factual information
> that Snape saved Harry's life in SS/PS and sent the Order to save
> Harry and his friend's lives in OOTP.  Harry refuses to acknowledge
> that.  DD also relates factual info that Snape saved his own life 
and
> that of Katie Bell's, yet Harry will not acknowledge that either.  
He
> doesn't come right out and say "it didn't happen," exactly, but he
> will not give it the slightest consideration in his estimation of
> Snape -- so for all practical purposes, he doesn't really believe 
it.


Alla:

I guess I have to say that it all connected. then - I cannot call 
DD's opinions about Snape deeds as facts, because he did not witness 
all of them. Dumbledore was NOT there when Snape " intended to 
search the forrest" Dumbledore does not exactly say that Snape saved 
his life in HBP ( what was it? took the necessary steps? Must go to 
look up the quote. What if what he did was purposefully delaying DD 
death for the time convenient for Snape?

Yes, Dumbledore says that Snape tried to save Harry in PS/SS in 
order to pay his life debt, but that is it, no?

> Carol responds:
<HUGE SNIP>
> So "giving freedom to the man who helped get Harry's parents 
killed"
> is an inaccurate assessment (if Snape's remorse is real). 
<HUGE SNIP>


Alla:

Even IF Snape remorse is real, he still helped getting Harry's 
parents killed by reporting the Prophecy, he may have tried to 
correct his mistake, but that is does not change the fact that he 
did it. IMO of course.
But as you also know, I think that Snape committed many other crimes 
in his DE days and killed people if not by AK (although personally 
by clean and efficient way he killed DD, I'd say he has plenty of 
experience with that one), then by potions for Voldie and no, I 
don't think that those potions could be anything else but poisonous.

So, I think Snape deserved Azkaban not only for reporting the 
Prophecy.

> > Lupinlore:
> > Chuckle.  Now THAT would be a wood pulper moment, wouldn't it?  
Not
> > only a child abuser, but with an entire school of children to 
abuse.
> > However, I could actually see it happen.

Alla:

I don't AT ALL. :) I can be wrong of course, but I feel pretty safe 
making this prediction ( and anybody can tell me told you so at the 
end of book 7 :)) Of course I cannot predict what happens to Snape , 
maybe he would even return to Hogwarts ( shudders for the next 
generation of Hogwarts kids subjected to this bastard character), 
BUT Snape will NOT be Headmaster. The reason why I am going on 
record with it, because IMO it would be a very wierd symbolism - the 
Headmaster who succeeds the most beloved Headmaster of the times is 
the one who killed him for ANY reasons.


> 
> Rebecca now:
<SNIP>
> I might also mention that JKR has also stated in interviews that 
bullying 
> students is one of the worst things a teacher can do, so outright 
> declarations of reprehensibility by fans that she supports abuse 
IMO are 
> fairly overreaching.
<SNIP>

Alla:

I agree with you on this part, yes. JKR said several times in the 
interviews that she well... does not like bullies teachers.

That is the reason that I feel fairly (less safe than first one), 
but still fairly safe to be confident enough that Snape's treatment 
of Harry and Neville SOMEHOW will be acknowledged. She is too vocal 
about bullying teachers to let Snape be glorified IMO.

But even if she won't talk about it at the end, I will still NOT 
think that she supports child abuse. My conclusion will be that she 
would simply choose more RL route and show that sometimes abusive 
teachers do not get punished for their misdeeds, at all.

BUT again as I said earlier I think she is not shy about punishing 
her characters ( both good and bad), so I am keeping my fingers 
crossed.


JMO,

Alla