Being Good and Evil ( Draco and a bit of Ron)/Harry as DD man LONG

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 154731

> >>Alla:
> The thing is I do not see what Twins do as muggle baiting, I see it
> as relatively harmless prank, that's all.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
Arthur Weasley seems to think it is:

"I spend half my life campaigning against the mistreatment of 
Muggles, and my own sons --" [GoF scholastic hardback p.53]

I define "mistreatment" as baiting.  And I'm using baiting as a word 
for activities that seem less than out and out murder.  Something 
that, from a certain view point, could be seen as good times.  But 
not, of course, for the muggles.

> >>Betsy Hp:
> > <snip>
> > I think the Dursleys are karmically punished by just being the   
> > Dursleys. Having wizards torture them only goes to prove their  
> > fears as being well grounded.

> >>Alla:
> Torture? Isn't that a bit too harsh of the word? Where are Dursleys
> screaming from pain?
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
"At that moment, however, a horrible gagging sound erupted behind 
him, and Aunt Petunia started to scream." [ibid p.48]

Then we have Vernon described as bellowing, and Petunia screams some 
more while trying to shield her son with her body.  She also "sobs 
hysterically".

The torture Petunia is going through is the intense fear for the 
life of her child.  Vernon is described in a more humorous 
manner "bellowing like a wounded hippo" [50] but I think his anger 
also springs from fear.  And, of course, Dudley spends the whole 
time unable to breathe.

Harry knows the Weasleys aren't likely to *murder* his cousin, but 
the Dursleys aren't too sure.  So they go through some real fear and 
are made to feel utterly helpless.  Which is pretty much what the 
Death Eaters do to the muggle family at the Quidditch Cup.

> >>Alla:
> Eh, that is not my point. Wasn't your argument that no matter what
> Marietta did Hermione was WRONG to "brand" her?
> I responded that why Hermione did it matters very much to me.
> The fact and the matter is that your argument tries to give the
> reasons of WHY Peter and Snape betrayed their sides, isn't it?
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
I do think purposefully and permanently disfiguring someone as a 
form of punishment is wrong.  I also think wizards baiting muggles 
is wrong.  However, I do not think spying is, in and of itself, 
wrong.  Good guys and bad guys can both spy.  So for spying it *is* 
important to look at the reasons and the methods, etc.

> >>Alla:
> Hermione giving Marietta a "SNEAK" and Umbridge hurting Harry with
> the quill I see as COMPLETELY different actions because of WHY they
> did it.
> Hermione marked a traitor, Umbridge hurt an innocent. Lots of
> difference to me.

Betsy Hp:
Ah, but Umbridge hurt someone she saw as totally *not* innocent, 
someone she saw as betraying her beloved Ministry and who needed to 
be punished.  Exactly the same thought Hermione had.

Harry felt he was standing up for the truth, but so did Marietta.  
Both did what they felt was the right thing, both did what they 
thought their families would want them to do.  Hermione and Umbridge 
both thought they knew better and that therefore they had the right 
to visit the punishment of their choice upon them.

And, I imagine, both Hermione and Umbridge feel they did the right 
thing.  I expect better of Hermione.  And I hope she learns her 
lesson before she becomes Umbridge.

Hermione, by employing the same methods as Umbridge, lowers herself 
to Umbridges level.  The twins, by using their powers against 
someone with no ability to defend themselves, acted in a way Death 
Eaters would approve of.  As good guys they should be above that 
sort of behavior.  IMO, anyway.

Betsy Hp