[HPforGrownups] Re: Being Good and Evil ( Draco and a bit of Ron)/

[Magpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 154770

> Rebecca:
>
> Actually, Pippin, I think she did actually worry about the "Pettigrew" 
> style betrayal and she took the idea of trust between the members of the 
> DA seriously as well.  She didn't treat it, IMO, as a joke and others, 
> including Ernie Macmillian, didn't either:
>
> 'I - I think everybody should write their name down, just so we know who 
> was here. But I also think,' she took a deep breath, 'that we all ought to 
> agree not to shout about what we're doing. So if you sign, you're agreeing 
> not to tell Umbridge or anybody else what we're up to.'

Magpie:
And you're suggesting that that is the equivalent of letting people know 
that they're pledging personal loyalty upon pain of disfigurement to the 
group?  Do you think that's how Voldemort gets people into the Death Eaters? 
" 'I - I think everybody should get a tattoo, just so we know who was here. 
But I also think,' [takes a deep breath] 'that we all ought to agree not to 
shout about what we're doing. So if you get your tattoo, you're agreeing not 
to tell Dumbledore or anybody else what we're up to.'

Hermione's hedging.  First it's that they shouldn't be "shouting about" what 
they're doing, and then at her most strong they're just "agreeing not to 
tell Umbridge or anybody else what we're up to."  This in no way suggests 
this is anything on the line of the Order of the Pheonix.  Hermione herself 
would have broken that kind of promise easily if she felt things were 
getting out of hand and the right thing would be to go to the authority. And 
then she pressures people into signing the thing when they show right up 
front they don't like pledging allegiance to her.  People aren't as loyal as 
she'd like them to be, but she plows ahead anyway.

Rebecca:
Some would feel that it would have been better
served ethically if no jinx was attached to the parchment the DA members 
signed, and I disagree with that. If you're committed to the cause and
loyalty to your fellows in arms (so to speak) you're not going to think 
twice about signing anything. There is always a price to be paid on any 
contract where a signed party defaults (think of buying a house, a car,
etc.)  That's just the way I see it, and everyone is free to have their own 
opinion.

Magpie:
But they're NOT committed to a cause, they're just joining a study group. 
Hermione's roping them into her own personal vision any way she can.  When 
you default on a car loan you've been told what the consequences are. 
Hermione doesn't tell anyone the real stakes.  You don't agree with Cho 
thinking it was a dirty trick of Hermione's, but Cho is a DA member and she 
obviously does.

Hermione is very into her activism in OotP, pulling strings, knitting hats, 
figuring out things in the paper, picking the bad ass pub for the meeting. 
Maybe she's getting off on the idea that she's starting her own Order.  But 
she's not.  She doesn't inspire the loyalty to start a group like that, 
which is why she presents it as a study group and the Parchment as just 
agreeing not to tell on the group as opposed to a blood vow with punishment 
(and needs Harry as leader).  When faced with kids who aren't even really 
sure they feel strongly enough to write down their name (which I believe is 
actually the thing that gives their names to Umbridge in the end), she 
guilts them and pressures them into signing, because she wants her army 
rather than reminding them to think about it carefully.

The following year Luna or Neville asks if the DA's continuing and Harry 
says no, since Umbridge is gone and they can take DADA.  It was never the 
Order of the Phoenix for him.  It was just what it was, a secret DADA class 
to make up for the DADA they weren't getting from Umbridge.  When it came 
time to go to the MOM Harry didn't call for the DA, nor was he surprised 
when most of the DA didn't come to his aid in HBP.  Only Neville and Luna 
came, because they liked the social aspect of it.

Ironically, In HBP the war really does come to Hogwarts--Voldemort is 
working at the school (as opposed to Umbridge who represented a slightly 
different evil, one that personally annoyed Hermione) and Hermione has 
nothing to do with stopping it. She's got different interests this year that 
replace stuff like the DA and SPEW (she doesn't even bother to protest when 
Harry gets his own slave).  I think JKR has said that Hermione is a parody 
of herself as a teenager, and I see her punishment of Marietta as perfectly 
in line with the exaggerated teenaged girl activist.  If she was really 
thinking on the level of stuff like Peter Pettigrew etc. I don't think she's 
be so impatient about getting the thing started.

I mean, if you compare this to Peter it seems to me opposite every which 
way.  Peter spent years earning the trust that rested on him, and there was 
no punishment for him if he broke the trust.  The priorities of the Order 
seem to be exactly the opposite of the way they are with Marietta.

-m