Snape saves Harry (or does he?)

[wynnleaf]

No: HPFGUIDX 154884

PAR 
> I am therefore convinced that simply falling from his broom would 
> not have killed Harry, even if the twins failed to catch him or 
> McGonagall / Hootch failed to act.

wynnleaf
If all your arguments are correct, LV was a fool for thinking he might
be able to kill Harry in this manner.  Ron and Hermione were just
being basically ignorant to be worried.  Fred and George were mostly
unnecessary.  And Snape -- ESE, DDM, or whoever -- was simply silly
for thinking his efforts were in any way needed.  Basically -- they
are all woefully ignorant -- Harry would have been fine.  Odd that JKR
never tells us that anywhere.  Even DD seemed deluded.  What else did
he mean by Snape's efforts to protect Harry?  A bunch of quite
ignorant and deluded people and JKR never even lets on how silly they
all are.

 
> PAR: there's nothing in cannon saying that LV told Quirrel to get 
> rid of Harry or that LV gave any advice to him regarding the broom. 

wynnleaf
Perhaps LV was in the back of his head yelling, "stop, you idiot. 
People don't die from falls!"  :D


> Winnleaf: However, after Harry's patronus  chases off the dementors, 
> Harry and friends, and Sirius are all  unconscious 
> 
> PAR: there's no evidence Herimone is unconscious, even assuming 
> after being chased off by Buckbeak that the werewolf would even be 
> in that part of the forest.

wynnleaf
Movie contamination is at work.  In the book, Hermione collapsed next
to Harry while he was trying to conjure a patronus.  Buckbeak did not
chase off the werewolf.  No one knew where the werewolf had gone.

PAR
 I would like one unambiguous incident 
> where Snape has done so.

wynnleaf
If you don't consider the broom incident unambiguous, practically
nothing will be.  One can always say, "oh, he wouldn't have died from
that...."


> PAR: I believe Cannon says that DD went to Kreature and then to MOM. 
> And if Harry has stated that he believes Sirius is at the MOM and 
> needs rescue, Harry is not in Hogwarts, Not in the forest and not at 
> Grimauld Place, by simple process of elimination he is likely to be 
> at MOM. 

wynnleaf
No one in the Order knew anything about Harry going anywhere (forest,
MOM or otherwise), without Snape telling them so.  DD interrogated
Kreacture because he'd been alerted by the Order of Harry's absence
and probably trip to the MOM, just as Snape had requested the Order to do.

PAR
 Further, since Harry has had one case of alerting the OOP 
> to a problem (Arthur and the snake), it would be wise to check out 
> the MOM regardless -- which is, in fact, all Snape really has the 
> order do.  HE didn't save Harry.  Sending someone else (Sirius) to 
> do it instead would not eliminate the life debt.

wynnleaf
Did I ever say anything about the life debt?  Hm, I didn't know we
were discussing whether or not these efforts paid that debt.  In any
case, without Snape notifying the Order and telling them to go to the
MOM, as well as telling them to alert DD, Harry would have died at the
MOM.  No, Snape was not the one to actually fight of DE's at the MOM.
 But no Order members would have been there if not for him.  You can
come up with all sorts of excuses for why he had to, or should have,
notified the Order.  The fact is, his alert ultimately saved Harry. 
Without it, Harry would have died -- as well as 4 other students.

It seems clear that you only consider "saving someone's life" to be
actively standing in between them and *certain* death.  That is not
the way many in the books interpret it.  For instance, in the example
you mention of Harry having the vision/dream of Arthur being attacked
by Nagini -- Harry gets credited by Molly for being instrumental in
saving Arthur's life.  Yet, according to you, Snape gets no credit at
all for contacting the Order to send them to save the students at the
MOM.