Hermione and Marietta

[sistermagpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 154996


> Allie:

I can see her apologizing to Hermione and
Hermione telling her "waspishly" that the one she should apologize
to is Harry.

Magpie:
Not really an apology, since Hermione has forced her into it through 
hexing her until she says the words.  Sounds very anti-Dumbledore to 
me. If Marietta's just refusing to apologize she pretty tough about 
her convictions.  

> Julie
> I also don't understand at all how it could be criminal. She's 
telling
> an aknowledged authority figure about an illegal club at the 
school.
> Can you explain what you mean by criminal?

Gerry
Destroying people's future.

Magpie:
Err...that's not criminal.  I'm not denying the seriousness of it, 
but turning someone in for doing something against the rules, no 
matter how bad the rules are, can't really be criminal can it?  
Turning someone in for drug use could destroy his/her future, but 
it's not against the law.  The DA is doing something it knows is 
against the rules and might lead to expulsion if they're caught.  

I hesitate in saying it because I fear it will be turned into my 
saying that the DA deserved to be caught, but Marietta didn't lie 
about what they were doing.  It was their own activities that were 
the grounds for expulsion if any, even if their activities were good 
and Umbridge wrong for wanting to expel them.  (Hogwarts kids have 
risked expulsion for less. Ironically, the two pre-NEWT students who 
leave school that year are the most successful we've seen.  As Julie 
pointed out, Hagrid was supposed to have killed somebody.) It just 
seems like Marietta isn't the only one who thinks she can have it 
both ways with the group.  

> Magpie:
> No, it means you're not talking about the book if you're talking
> about what might have happened even though it's not brought up on
> the page. There's lots of "what ifs" we can imagine in the books,
> but they're not canon as potential consequences.

Renee:
That works two ways. If I can't say they happen, you can't say that
they won't.

(sorry for the very short post)

Magpie:
No, it doesn't work both ways.  It does not work either way (which 
is why I never said anything "won't" happen).  It's not like any 
nightmare "what if" scenario one can imagine must be proved 
impossible or else it's relevent.  

Lanval:
You think there's more to come, then? That we're not done with
Marietta, and may find out more about her situation? Interesting
thought!

See, I thought that the concept of betrayal is a huge one in the
book, and it seems to be important in a personal sense to the author.
Marietta as a character was not of exceptional importance; the
concept of betrayal was.

Magpie:
In a way, that's probably why I think it will be come up again, 
because as a betrayal, it's pretty lame.  It has bad consequences, 
but there's no personal betrayal because nobody knows Marietta.  The 
only person Marietta is personally connected to is angrier at 
Hermione than Marietta. Hermione gave out trust very freely with the 
group. Leaving aside the hex, it's interesting we haven't heard much 
about what Hermione learned.  Her hex was brutal, but very 
ineffective for the group, and she did very little in the way of 
screening or getting an honest, informed consent about her group 
beforehand.  Especially in Book V she can get carried away with the 
way she thinks people should think instead of how they actually do.

Lanval:
Well, it can't be both, can it? Either Marietta is very deeply
concerned that the DA is a threat, or else she sees it as kids doing
things behind an unpopular teacher's back. 

Magpie:
I didn't get the impression she thought they were a literal threat 
like she was scared of some impending doom or anything. 
Marietta seemed to dislike the DA more and more as it went on.  I 
remembering also getting the impression that she was getting 
personally more angry--spite might have played a part.  I do think 
one of the differences we're supposed to see is that Marietta is 
just a teenager as opposed to the teenagers who understand the 
bigger picture.  Even as a normal teenager she can think going 
against the Ministry is wrong.  She wouldn't have to think it 
through that much.  If we had seen the angle of Marietta being angry 
at Cho we still might have found Marietta more sympathetic.  Look at 
how sympathetic people can be to Snape, for instance, when he's 
acting out against Harry or Neville!

Lanval:
See, I doubt that. It's possible, but I think of Marietta as neither
bright enough to see the Big Picture, nor all that morally
conflicted.

Magpie:
Sorry, I see I was speaking about "doing the same thing" a different 
way.  I was assuming we were talking about the same sequence of 
events just with a more sympathetic portrayal.  You could be right 
that if this character had more depth she wouldn't have made the 
decision she did.  I do think a deeper Marietta could have still 
turned them in--she just might have been more committed like Percy 
is, telling everyone that she was right.  There's a couple of ways 
to go with the few facts we're given, but I think if JKR thought 
getting in good with Umbridge was part of it we'd see it.  

Steve:
Marietta's not scarred for life, she is not
disfigured, she is not crippled; she simply has a few zits. Let's not
let this get out of perspective.

Magpie:
She's been disfigured then. Her appearance has been marred.  She's 
got at least cystic acne, which is very different from a few zits 
(it's also scarring).  Or any zits, actually. There's a reason 
Eloise Midgen would try something as risky as hexing pimples off. 

Carol:
Draco, in contrast, has younger parents, who whatever their views and
loyalties, are at least sane. His mother is beautiful; his father is
rich and influential. Until his father's arrest at the end of OoP
shows the potential danger of being a Voldemort loyalist, his father
seems to him a perfect role model--be like Father and you'll have 
gold and politicians sharing your pockets, and a trophy wife to boot.


Magpie:
Not to mention Draco has a different personality and apparently a 
completely different personal relationship with his family that 
might go beyond sharing their views.  He doesn't have a "good" 
brother either.  Now, before anyone thinks I'm not giving Sirius 
credit, yes, he still made the choice that he did.  I don't think 
the fact that Draco isn't a natural rebel (that's the central idea 
behind Sirius' whole character it seems) means that he couldn't see 
the truth and make the right choice, nor do I think that Sirius 
would have rebelled against his family no matter what their views.  
But you can't completely divorce characters from their character 
either.

-m