[HPforGrownups] Re: Harry Horcrux redux :)

[Peggy Wilkins]

No: HPFGUIDX 155058

On 7/7/06, spookedook <spookedook at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

> spookedook:
> Also there is nothing to suggest that Nagini was
> not made a Horcrux before entering Godric's Hollow.

Peggy W:
I have to disagree.  We don't even know that Nagini existed before
GOF, do we?  I don't recall ever seeing her (him?  I'm assuming her)
mentioned before the opening chapter of GOF, in the Riddle House.  We
have no accounting of how Voldemort came across Nagini; she is
introduced to us there in the house.  Is she long-lived enough that
she existed for the entire 13 years between the Godric's Hollow events
and the start of GOF?  Maybe; maybe not.  We have no way of knowing.

I see no reason to go against what Dumbledore guesses: that if she was
made a Horcrux, it happened after Voldemort was back in his re-created
body.  We have no reason to disbelieve it.

Just to restate exactly what Dumbledore said in the HBP "Horcruxes" chapter:

> > <snip> About the possibility of making Nagini into one of his
> > Horcruxes, Dumbledore says: "As we know, he failed [to kill you at
> > Godric's Hollow]. After an interval of some years, however, he used
> > Nagini to kill an old Muggle man, and it might then have occurred
> > to him to turn her into his last Horcrux."  (p.506 again)

So we are being told she is a recent Horcrux, not an old one.  It may
be a guess and not documented truth, but my tendency is to trust what
Dumbledore says.  It makes sense to me.

On 7/7/06, esmith222002 <c.john at imperial.ac.uk> wrote:

> Brothergib:
> And if we follow the timeline - when LV talks to DD in the
> chapter 'Lord Voldemort's request' in HBP he is not yet snakelike.
> When he appears on the back of Quirrel's head, he is snakelike! He
> clearly would not be able to make a Horcrux as the ethereal being he
> has been since GH, therefore the Nagini horcrux was made before GH.
> >
> Peggy Wilkins wrote;
> > I don't believe this conclusion is correct for the reason given above:
> > Voldemort's appearance is explained without requiring him to have
> > Nagini as a Horcrux.
> >
> I think you need to give a bit more explanation for the last comment.
> As I said there was evidence of LV creating Horcruxes when he appears
> at Hogwarts to ask DD for a job. DD's explanation of LV's altered
> appearance could refer to his appearance at this point.

Peggy W:
Yes, this makes sense.

> When he then
> reappears in the cemetry he is snakelike. So something has happened
> to make him snakelike - the most obvious reason being sharing a soul
> piece with a snake.

But--it seems to me that simply continuing along the path of making
more Horcruxes, continuing to alter his soul, could explain the
further alteration of his appearance.  I don't see that it is a
correct, logical conclusion that putting part of one's soul into a
snake, as opposed to into some inanimate object, would make one appear
like a snake.  If it was strong evidence, why didn't Dumbledore
mention it?  Dumbledore sees as evidence the following things:
  - Voldemort's closeness to Nagini: he always keeps her nearby
  - Voldemort's unusual degree of control over her, even for a Parselmouth
In this "Horcruxes" chapter where he is discussing the issue with
Harry, why didn't he also say, because he looks snakelike?  If this is
such strong, convincing evidence then it seems to me he would have
mentioned it.

Given that we don't even know that Nagini existed at the time of
Godric's Hollow, it seems to me an unsupportable conclusion that
Voldemort made Nagini a Horcrux prior to Godric's Hollow.

-- 
Peggy Wilkins
enlil65 at gmail.com