[HPforGrownups] Accidental Harrycrux with a Bloodsucking Snake (long)

[Kathryn Jones]

No: HPFGUIDX 155071

Neri wrote:
snip
> Personally it doesn't seem logical to me that Voldemort would try to
> kill a baby that he had just made his Horcrux (although one might
> think of scenarios that would allow for that too) and this is why I
> tend more to the Accidental Harrycrux variety. This one basically
> assumes that, as Dumbledore says, Voldy was intending to make his last
> Horcrux with Harry's murder, but he splitted his soul over murdering
> Lily, and when he lost his body because of the rebounding AK the other
> released soul part entered baby Harry. This Variety assumes that Voldy
> does *not* know that Harry is his Horcrux.

  KJ:

   I have to agree with you on the sheer basis of logic.  If horcruxes 
and soul pieces were not key to the plot, they would never have been 
included in the books.  Harry has a scar on his head for a reason, he 
has some of V's powers, he can speak Parseltongue, he has an unusual 
mental connection to V. no matter if he is in his own body or a snake's 
body.  Time and distance don't make a difference to this connection, as 
was brought up in the occlumency lessons. We are told in JKR's 
interviews that the events at GH had never occurred in the history of 
the WW. We also know that the backlash of the AK was violent enough to 
destroy the house and vaporize Voldy. Obviously, V. simply meant to 
murder Harry, but something went wrong, something that "marked Harry as 
his equal".

Neri
> What if Voldemort indeed did not intend to make Harry a Horcrux in the
> first place, but he *had* realized that later, or at least he has come
> to suspect that Harry is now his Horcrux? What if all his major plans
> and actions in the last books have actually been shaped by that
> knowledge/suspicion?  
> Assume for a minute that sometime after GH (say, after SS/PS too, to
> make things simpler) Vapor!Mort realizes or suspects that Harry became
> his Horcrux in GH. What would he do about it?

  KJ

    This is very interesting and the first new thing to come up in the 
Harry/horcrux discussions. It is a very good point and would explain the 
difference between "kill him" in GoF, and "leave him for me" in HBP. 
Something happened after the battle of the MoM to clue V. as to how 
dangerous Harry could be to him. He does realize that there is a 
connection, a scar on Harry's head, and that Harry can speak 
Parseltongue. As well, when he attempted to possess Harry at the MoM, he 
may have been able to sense the soul piece.

   Neri
> If he simply kills Harry he'd lose this sixth Horcrux and remain with
> only five. Of course, he can try creating another Horcrux later, as
> Dumbledore suggests he had done with Nagini. But that would mean
> splitting his soul again, so the total number of pieces would be
> eight, not seven, one of them lost forever. I don't think this option
> would appeal to Voldemort at all. What he'd really want to do would be
> to rescue his seven soul parts project. The preferred option from his
> point of view would be to somehow retrieve his seventh soul part that
> is now embedded in Harry, and encase it in another Horcrux of his
> choice, most probably Nagini. Is it possible for him to manage such a
> thing? And how?

   KJ:

     This is where we part ways. I think that Nagini is a plot device to 
enable to steer us into believing that it is possible to have a soul 
piece encased in a living creature. Nothing more. Voldemort has 
possessed Nagini so often that this may be the only reason that she is 
particularly obedient to him. DD just casually made mention of his 
thoughts on the matter and it has nearly become canon that Nagini is a 
horcrux.

snip

   Neri
> In the graveyard scene itself Nagini is mentioned several times,
> impatiently circling Harry as if waiting for her treat. Here is just
> one example:

> GoF, Ch. 32, p. 639:
> He could hear noises at his feet. He looked down and saw a gigantic
> snake slithering through the grass, circling the headstone where he
> was tied.

   KJ:

     I am thinking that Nagini may either turn to Harry as a result of 
the confusion of the piece of soul in Harry that she senses, or she may 
become confused at a crucial moment because of it. Part of her circling 
Harry may just be a hint in this direction.

Neri
> Is this interesting and highlighted property of Nagini's venom
> important to the plot? It might be just my biology background showing
> again, but venom/saliva with anticoagulant properties is typical to
> bloodsuckers, such as vampire bats (BTW, vampire bats actually don't
> suck the victim's blood, they lap it, but the principle is the same.
> The anticoagulant agent preventing clotting in their saliva is a
> glycoprotein named, naturally, draculin). If Nagini is indeed a
> bloodsucker, then Voldy had intended her to suck the blood out of
> Harry's body after he kills him in the graveyard. Of course, that
> wouldn't be the first time that Voldemort was making use of the
> special properties of her venom. He also used it when he was
> Baby!mort, mixed with... ah yes, unicorn blood. Do I notice a theme here?

  KJ:

    This could be one more thing wrong with V's potion, in that we know 
killing a unicorn and drinking its blood conveys a curse upon that 
person.  Add to this a bone of his father who repudiated him utterly, 
Harry's blood containing protections based on love, which apparently 
caused him considerable pain when he tried to possess Harry, as well as 
Pettigrew's hand. Pettigrew owes his life to Harry Potter. It seems like 
a recipe for disaster.

Neri
> In PoA and OotP we were told repeatedly that dementors can suck souls
> out of their victims, so we know that this is in principle possible in
> the Potterverse. Admittedly dementors don't do it by sucking the
> victim's blood, but our case is different. Voldemort isn't interested
> in Harry's soul, like any dementor out there. He is interested in his
> own soul part that became encased in Harry's body. Is it possible to
> retrieve such a soul part by sucking the victim's blood?

  KJ:

    While you could be right about this, I find it more likely that one 
of the horcruxes will be tossed to a dementer, who will obligingly suck 
the soul out of it without risking the lives of the Trio. Dementors can 
be useful too.

   Neri
> Well, not really a clue, more of a hunch, but what's with all these
> blood hints, anyway? Does this have any connection with Voldemort
> using a bit of Harry's blood for his resurrection? Does it have
> anything to do with the gleam in Dumbledore's eyes?

KJ:

    It is certainly there for a purpose. There is a great deal to do 
with blood in the books including inheritance of blood, purity of blood, 
loss of blood, taking of blood, dragon's blood, unicorn blood, wards 
using blood, blood protections, and DD's little trickle of blood. Even 
the relationship between Harry and Snape could be characterized as "bad 
blood". It will be interesting to see where all of these references take us.

KJ