Accidental Harrycrux with a Bloodsucking Snake (long)
Mike
mcrudele78 at yahoo.com
Sun Jul 9 18:30:44 UTC 2006
No: HPFGUIDX 155128
> > Neri:
> > and this is why I tend more to the Accidental Harrycrux variety.
> > This one basically assumes that, as Dumbledore says, Voldy was
> > intending to make his last Horcrux with Harry's murder
<snip>
> Carol responds:
> As I said before, there's no evidence whatever that Horcruxes
> can be created accidentally. Slughorn says that the wizard who intends
> to create a Horcrux splits his soul through the act of murder and
> encases the soul bit in an object using a spell. Obviously the
> encasing has to occur *after* the murder that splits the soul. There
> is no preparatory spell, or at least no evidence for one. So once
> Voldemort had hit Harry with the AK and the AK burst out of him,
> causing the lightning-shaped cut that later healed into a scar, and
> rebounded onto Voldemort, separating his soul from his body without
> killing him because of the five or six extant Horcruxes, he could not
> possibly perform the spell to create a Horcrux
Mike here:
I don't think you are being fair, Carol. You deny the accidental horcrux
theory because we have no proof in canon. But you use the AK busting
back out of Harry to create a scar, which is also not in canon, and IMO
is a less likely scenario. I have posted a theory in a previous thread
on accidental horcrux creation which calls for the horcrux encasing
spell to be performed prior to killing, not after.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/155069
In there I added a canon hint from PS/SS that I think supports
Harry!Horcrux. There is another canon hint pointed out by fuzztail2001
in his/her post from CoS.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/155094
Admittedly, neither of these *prove* anything, but they are strong
canon hints, especially when you consider that JKR was originally
itroduced us to horcruxes in CoS, tho we didn't know it then.
<snip>
> Carol:
> Meanwhile, some of his powers somehow entered Harry through the
> cut. Admittedly we don't know the mechanism.
Mike again:
Well, if we believe the Harry!Horcrux theory we do know the mechanism.
The soul piece imparts the powers to Harry and makes a psychic
connection between Harry and LV. We know Ginny speaks parseltongue
when the diary soul piece is possessing her. But Harry isn't possessed
by the soul piece like Ginny or Quirrell, he is the repository, the
Horcrux. He retains his free will. In fact it may be proof that Harry
is inately a more powerful wizard than LV, which we were also shown
proof of in the graveyard.
Something else to consider. Would a simple scar, even an interesting
shaped scar, be enough to satisfy the prophesy? My question goes to
the "mark him as his equal" portion. IMO, the mark would have to be
more significant than a lightening bolt shaped scar. A horcrux, OTOH,
would be a significant way to "mark him as his equal", wouldn't it?
It would also explain the transfer of powers.
>> Neri:
> > This Variety assumes that Voldy does *not* know that Harry is
> > his Horcrux.
> >
> > Or doesn't he?
> >
> > What if Voldemort indeed did not intend to make Harry a Horcrux
> > in the first place, but he *had* realized that later, or at least
> > he has come to suspect that Harry is now his Horcrux? What if all
> > his major plans and actions in the last books have actually been
> > shaped by that knowledge/suspicion?
>
> Carol:
> First, you're taking the accidental Horcrux for granted here
> (though I understand that you need to do so to extend the
> speculation). And second, you're overlooking Voldemort's very
> real motives for killing Harry, neither of which requires Harry
> to be a Horcrux: Harry is the Prophecy Boy destined (in LV's
> view) to kill Voldemort or be killed by him (obviously LV prefers
> the latter), and Harry has thwarted or escaped from Voldemort
> four times. Voldemort wants him dead by his own hand so that he
> can prove that he's the most powerful wizard in the land. IOW, he
> has the same motive he had when he went to Godric's Hollow in the
> first place as well as a second motive multiplied by four.
<snip>
Mike again:
Obviously I like Neri's theory here. But once again Carol is not being
fair. Neri is postulating that LV has recently realized that Harry is a
horcrux (from the MoM possession attempt in OotP?), and that has caused
LV to change his strategy. Carol responds with the non sequetor that
Harry is the Prophesy Boy, and there is no requirement for Harry to be a
horcrux? Yes Carol, we know Voldemort wants to kill Harry because of the
prophesy, but couldn't Neri be right, Voldemort changes his strategy to
achieve that end *because* he has realized Harry is one of his
Horcruxes?
<snip>
> Neri:
> > Well, not really a clue, more of a hunch, but what's with all these
> > blood hints, anyway? Does this have any connection with Voldemort
> > using a bit of Harry's blood for his resurrection? Does it have
> > anything to do with the gleam in Dumbledore's eyes?
>
> Carol:
> I think you're right that the properties of Nagini's venom are
> important, but I don't think they have anything to do with the
> twinkle. <snip>
Mike, lastly:
I think Neri is on to something regarding blood (not venom), there does
seem to be an inordinant amount of references to blood in this series.
One more that you didn't mention; DD's discovery of the ten uses of
dragon's blood, on his chocolate frog card.
Regarding the "gleam": I read someone's opinion (can't remember who for
attribution, my apologies) that LV now has the same blood in him that DD
used to provide for Harry's safety i.e. Petunia/Lily's blood. Therefore,
ironically, Harry is protected from LV by LV's simulcrum blood, because
it is the same blood used to seal the charm on Harry.
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