Accidental Harrycrux with a Bloodsucking Snake (long)

[Neri]

No: HPFGUIDX 155176

> > Neri:
> > Almost correct. Since Voldy uses Nagini's anticoagulant venom in
> potions, the simplest explanation for Dumbledore's postmortem bleeding
> is that her venom was also an ingredient of the green potion from the
> > cave. <snip>
> 
> Carol notes:
> In which case, Nagini has been Voldemort's familiar since before
> Godric's Hollow (if RAB is Regulus, he died before the Potters were
> killed) and is quite likely to be a Horcrux.
>

Neri:
Agreed on the first part. I don't see why the second part follows from
the first. What, isn't an evil overlord allowed to have a pet snake
without turning her into a Horcrux?

We know for sure Voldy obtained Slytherin's locket and ring and the
Hufflepuff Cup, then he needed two more Horcruxes. Dumbledore thought
he had wanted objects from all four founders – I tend to agree.
Dumbledore also believed that in GH Voldy meant to create his sixth
and last Horcrux, which apparently was to be the Gryffindor object, or
something else because he couldn't get a Gryffindor object (my theory:
he settled on Lily). So if Nagini was *already* his Horcrux at that
point, it means he also missed the Ravenclaw object (unless Nagini
once belonged to Rowena Ravenclaw, which I somehow doubt). Missing
*both* the Gryffindor and Ravenclaw objects would screw up the whole
founders theme big. 

 
> Pippin:
> So you assume that Dumbledore's instruction to 'leave me and save
> yourself'  if so ordered has no narrative purpose?

Neri:
Of course it has. It's part of the whole "Harry you are more important
than I am" narrative, like donating his blood to open the cave,
drinking the potion himself, using his last spell to immobilize Harry,
etc. But I don't see any indication that Dumbledore extended this
approach to Snape.

 
> Pippin:
> It is not an assumption that a blast of green light can be produced by
> other spells than AK,

Neri:
It is not? I can't recall any other spell in canon that comes with a
green jet of light. For all we know AK could be the only curse of that
color.


> Pippin:
> or that uttering the words Avada Kedavra 
> won't produce a killing curse without a great deal of magical power 
> behind it. Nothing vague there.
> 

Neri:
We know that Crouch!Moody said that if all the students would say the
words, he *doubts* that he'd get as much as a nosebleed. He didn't say
if this would produce a green light or not. This is vague. Going from
here to a jet of green light that blasts someone several meters in the
air but doesn't kill him or even just knock him out, even though he's
already dying, is quite a leap.


> Pippin:
> You either have to assume that the AK knocked Dumbledore up
> and backwards, for which we have no other examples in canon, or
> that something else did it, for which examples are numerous. 
>  

Neri: 
They are numerous. In fact they are so numerous that they suggest that
any curse can blast people in the air, *in addition* for its nominal
effect, if executed with enough magical force behind it.
  

> Pippin:
>  Harry first thinks that he needed to get Dumbledore and Snape together
> and later that Dumbledore died when the spell was released, so
> he got it  wrong one way or another. The only question is which time.
> 

Neri:
The first time JKR tells us it's an irrational emotional response:

********************************************************
Terror tore at Harry's heart. ... He had to get to Dumbledore and he
had to catch Snape. ... Somehow the two things were linked. ... He
could reverse what had happened if he had them both together. ...
Dumbledore could not have died. ...
********************************************************

Harry had just seen Dumbledore blasted, he's fighting a battle for his
life, hasn't had ten seconds in a row to think it through and is
obviously in the denial phase. But he already knows the truth in his
heart, as JKR tells us explicitly in the second time. The second time
is after Harry had helped Hagrid put down the fire and walked all the
distance from the gates back to the castle. He had time to think it
through and accept the truth. He sees Dumbledore's body at the
distance and has all the motivation in the world to hope that
Dumbledore is only unconscious, and yet we are told:

********************************************************
He had known there was no hope from the moment that the full Body-Bind
Curse Dumbledore had placed upon him lifted, known that it could have
happened only because its caster was dead.
********************************************************
 
This is a pretty strong testimony coming from someone who is
canonically an expert on jinxes. 


> Pippin:
> Canon for Dumbledore's  being conscious: after the fall, the locket has 
> apparently been dislodged from DD's pocket, yet DD's 
> glasses are only askew. Weird, if both are the results of the fall.
> 

Neri:
I don't see why it's weird, and I don't see why it would be less weird
if he landed conscious. Are you saying that he took the locket out of
his pocket, opened it, didn't pull out the folded note inside, left it
there lying on the ground for anybody to find, waited another 20 or 30
minutes, and then died? Doesn't make much sense to me.


> Pippin:
> She has to explain why Draco's failures with the necklace and the
> mead didn't trigger the UV.

Neri:
Strange, I have never had any problem with that. Draco hasn't failed
his mission as long as he still has an ongoing plan and a chance to
carry it out. I predict JKR won't bother to explain this part and I
won't feel any letdown because of it. 

Neri