[HPforGrownups] Re: muggle baiting vs. muggle torture

[Jennifer Choi]

No: HPFGUIDX 155247

> Random832:
> But he _can_ fight back - with his fists. What's so _unique_ about
> magic in ths instance? Are you saying that when there is a bully, it's
> categorically inappropriate to try to get back at them or escape them
> in a way that they could not have done? If they're unintelligent,
> you'd be doing something wrong by trying to outsmart them? Or if you
> have some martial arts knowledge you can't use it in self defence
> because your attacker doesn't have the same skills? I think this is a
> case of "unfamiliarity breeds contempt" - magic is somehow in a class
> by itself.



jennathasania83:



 Respectfully, I think that we have strayed. My point was not that Dudley is
incapable of defending himself in some way, but that by using magic the
Twins *are* muggle baiting, and are thus being bullies - which by definition
usually implies picking on someone who is weaker in some way. This does NOT
negate that Dudley himself is a bully, *but* Dudley's being a bully doesn't
make what the Twins are doing something other than muggle baiting. Although
i'm pretty sure that no matter what I say, it won't change your mind. If the
DEs beat Muggles up rather than using magic, it still would be wrong, but
perhaps it would no longer be Muggle baiting. Anyways, the issue was whether
or not the Twins were Muggle baiting, which I see as tormenting a Muggle in
some way with magic. That is why magic is being treated as a special case.



Random832:
> And casting the former as the latter is moral relativism of the worst
> kind. Using an analogy that comes just short of explicitly claiming
> that the Dursleys' treatment of Harry was something that the twins
> merely disapproved of is disingenuous at best.



jennathasania83:




Even if  the Dursleys killed Harry it doesn't make it morally okay for the
Twins to do whatever they want to Dudley (or the Dursleys), IMO. That just
becomes revenge, in my mind similar to those endless cycles of violence in
blood feuds. No one is saying that what Harry was subjected to isn't wrong.
However, in my mind the Twins, and a lot of other people, are rather scary
because it seems to me that they think that there is some absolute line
after which one crosses anything is fair game; and for the twins it seems
that this line lies with whether they approve of you in some way or not.

Also, I think that someone made the point before that none of the Dursleys
knew that Dudley wasn't going to die, in fact if I recall correctly the
Twins themselves were in awe of the size to which Dudley's tongue swelled. I
think that inspiring a lot of fear in a person *is* baiting, the extreme
example of course is death - which as you pointed out did not happen - but
just because no one died doesn't make it *not* baiting, or okay. My point
was that: the Twins used magic, which Dudley can't do, to torment him in
some fashion - and in my mind this is Muggle baiting. Perhaps my examples
were too extreme as they were clearly jumped upon and my point passed up.
What he or his family did is completely irrelevant, in my mind, to
determining whether or not this is Muggle baiting.

Cheers,
Jenn


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