Harry the accidental horcrux: is it Harry not Nagini which is the last horcrux?

[Szehms]

No: HPFGUIDX 155551

> Pat:
>This is something that has bothered me for quite a while. I haven't
>seen it discussed here and wondered if anyone else found it somewhat
>disturbing. Yes, Dumbledore gave Harry the information that Ken
cites
>above, but Harry's *dream* specifically showed us that Nagini was
not
>the agent of death here - LV used an AK. Harry never corrected DD,
>but the two stories do not jibe. I'm torn between thinking that DD
>could be wrong about Nagini-as-horcrux here, or if the detail is
>simply insignificant and doesn't change the outcome. Does anyone
have
>any thoughts about this?

>Thanks for your two knuts,
>Pat

Scarlett replies:

Harry a horcrux?  I don't know, but I believe that Nagini may not be
a horcrux object....this is long...


Third person to first person....Harry and Voldemort's intensified
connection:

In GOF Harry is able to "sense" Lord Voldemort in his dreams, but
notice how Harry views the death of Frank Bryce...he sees the death
in the THIRD PERSON...Harry watches the scene as a bystander, not
unlike how he views events in a pensieve. Then notice a change....in
OOTP Harry now sees events unfold in the FIRST PERSON, that is HE
views events in his dreams as if he is Lord Voldemort...when Arthur
is attacked HARRY is the snake, he isn't watching as a bystander
anymore. Why the change?

The only thing I can figure is that at the end of GOF LV uses
Harry's blood to regenerate himself. Did LV enhance the connection
by taking Harry's blood? It has been argued by other posters in this
thread that Harry is not a traditional horcrux, but he does share
a 'soul-mind' connection with LV that is very unusual in the
wizarding world. I think that the change in Harry from GOF to OOTP
enhances this theory.  But does this mean Harry is an accidental
horcrux or simply deeply connected to LV?

The GLEAM:

In GOF (696 paperback)There is an unexplained "gleam" in DD eyes, is
this because when LV shared Harry's blood he only deepened his
connection with Harry?  I think we all agree on this point.

DD realizes the extent of the deepened connection in OOTP when Harry
views Arthur's attack through possessed  Nagini (essentially LV's)
eyes...
Did the tinkering with the instrument in OOTP signify that Nagini is
a horcrux... OR DID DD NOTICE THAT CHANGE IN HARRY'S DREAMS-that is
that Harry was now viewing events in the first person (notice how DD
appears very concerned that Harry views the events in the first
person, he notices the change since GOF) Did DD tinker with the
instrument in order to validate the "gleam"?
That is was his suspicion that LV had made another grave error by
taking Harry's blood reinforced? Now LV and Harry were connected,
but in essence divided?
Did DD know that LV has sealed his fate by taking Harry's
blood...now the Prophecy was completely fulfilled...only Harry could
destroy LV because only Harry was uniquely qualified to do so as
Harry and LV share the same blood and their connection is enhanced?

I believe the answer is yes, but does this mean Harry is a horcrux?

I can only make this assumption: If Harry is a horcrux, that portion
of Voldemort's soul lies dormant inside him unless it is triggered.
Only when Lord Voldemorts presence is near or his emotions are
aroused does the scar burn-the scar is an "alarm bell" it burns and
causes pain to Harry signaling the presence of Voldemort or LV
emotions when they are particularly acute.
It is true Harry felt as if his scar was going to "burst open" when
he was possessed by LV because the alarm bell was raging full force.
When LV possesses Harry "Harry did not know where his body ended and
the creatures began. They were fused together.."
But they could not remain fused because when Harry thought of Sirius
his heart filled with Joy, Hope and love. SO it appears that
VOldemort CANNOT survive in his last "horcrux" as long as Harry's
soul and being is side by side with Voldemorts, so I guess you could
say "one cannot live while the other lives.." sound familiar?

However, I would venture to say that there are very few who
Voldemort could possess for any length of time
that is why he
created horcruxes in objects.  Could Voldemort possess Hermione or
Ron, NO, for the same reasons he cannot fully possess Harry, the
difference is that they do not have a scar that burns intensely, and
that is the key.

 You are probably thinking "aha" exactly, Voldemort cannot possess a
human very long so why make a human a horcrux!  I would agree,
Voldemort probably did not desire to make a human horcrux because 1)
it looks like it has never been done, so 2) who knows what the
consequences would be, Voldemorts greatest fear would likely be
transferring his powers to someone else and therefore GIVING SOMEONE
ELSE THE TOOLS TO DEFEAT HIM.  Also a human is weak, a human dies,
then what would happen to the horcrux?
This question leads me to another
.if the horcrux were attempted on
a human, would it attach to the body or the soul
.no one knew but I
think we now know, the horcrux would attach to the essence of the
person, essentially splitting the soul, sharing it with another

Voldemort would not want this, wouldn't doing this give that person
the power to defeat him, give him the abilities that only the great
lord voldemort, the heir of slytherin, possesses?

Therefore it would have to be an accident, an unintended consequence
of the rebounded curse..we know almost nothing about  the horcrux
curse other than a murder is necessary and there were two murders
that night...the soul is split and the horcrux curse directs that
portion of the soul into an object or if this is true a person--
encasing the split soul.


Lets revisit the one Horcrux we DO know about that Harry destroyed...


You see in COS a portion of the soul resided in the object of a
diary, however it was simply a vessel waiting to be filled, a
trigger waiting to be pulled, The Horcrux when in an object does not
have a mind of its own, it needs an accomplice, the diary needed
Ginny's soul, maybe a "soul exchange." Tom riddle materialized more
and more the closer to death she became, eventually her death would
have made the process complete.
So again, in order for the Horcrux to be activated and used to house
Voldemorts soul, it appears a soul must be sacrificed.
If Harry were a horcrux would not Voldemort have only to destroy
Harry's soul to reclaim Harry as a horcrux ? Then it wouldn't matter
if Harry was filled with love
.But how can he destroy Harry's soul
and still retain the portion necessary for him?

But hey all we know for sure and we can all agree on is
that "Voldemort put a bit of himself" in Harry and no one, not even
Dumbledore knows how it happened. I think the connection can be
explained via a horcrux.  It can also be as simple as DD has told
Harry, but I lean towards Harry as the 'accidental horcrux'.


I can't help but wonder how Harry knew what to do in COS. How did
he, a 2nd year at hogwarts, know how Tom Riddle?
"while Harry was sure he had never heard the name T.M. Riddle
before, it still seemed to mean something to him, almost as though
Riddle was a friend he had had when he was very small, and had half-
forgotten"...(COS)

How did he SOMEHOW know how to destroy the horcrux??
"then without thinking, without considering, as if he meant to do it
all along, Harry seized the basilisk fang on the floor..." (COS)
How did Harry know parceltongue?
Why did the sorting hat see the mind and talents of a slytherin
inside of Harry?
you can say that somehow the backfiring of the avada curse gave
Harry a bit of voldemort, but isn't that in essence a horcrux?

I think it is back in the vestiges of his mind is Voldemort, lying
dormant with just a small piece of a soul that can only become whole
when the horcrux is properly activated.

Voldemort cannot fully possess Harry, but a horcrux isn't a simple
possession, I think it is a small deposit, Voldemorts actual soul or
original soul can only possess the weak, like Quirrell, or simple
animals and rodents..

Activating a horcrux I think we will find is more complex than mere
possession.


I would like to end this long posting with this passage:
"a tiny puff of pale green smoke issued from the minuscule silver
tube at the top...after a few seconds the tiny puffs became a steady
stream of smoke....a serpents head grew out of the end (voldemort)
opening its mouth wide...the smoke serpent, however, split itself
instantly into two snakes...(Voldemort splits its soul with
Harry)..with a look of grim satisfaction DD gave the instrument
another gentle tap...."

That night Voldemort split a piece of his soul with harry, why did
DD say "in essence divided" does that mean that they are connected
but in essence divided, that neither can live with the other
(neither can possess the other), why the look of grim satisfaction?
I can only guess...

Harry's defeat of LV:

But as long as Tom Riddle's soul is on this side of the Veil,
Voldemort will continue to return. And to completely destroy him,
Harry must destroy all of his parts.
He must destroy the all the "horcruxes"  and if harry is indeed a
horcrux, he must destroy that part of the soul within him.  The
question is is harry a horcrux? If so will he know before or after
he destroys all the other horcruxes? Is it  possible that with the
destruction of all the horcruxes a battle will launch  between
Voldemort and Harry as he is the last horcrux....a battle of
possession?

  Wouldn't this fulfill the prophecy one cannot live while the other
lives?


If Harry is a horcrux......
On Voldemort's side it is also clear that he must personally destroy
Harry Potter but retain the soul he has transferred inside  if he is
ever to be able to function again as a "complete" entity.

 If anyone else should manage to kill the boy, the human "soul" of
Voldemort is so entangled with that of Harry Potter that it may be
carried through the Veil with it and permanently lost.
BEFORE BOOK 6 it is also clear  that Voldemort was not aware that he
was missing his horcruxes. But now he  realizes that if he does
succeed in murdering Harry and recovering it, he will be recovering
a soul that has been connected to  Harry Potter.

This will not necessarily work to Lord Voldemort's advantage. That
soul has undergone considerable transformation since it was last in
his keeping. For the past 15 years it has been living the life of
Harry Potter. Harry's reality, perceptions and objectives are by now
far more "real" to it. And, having incorporated the infant Potter's
memories, it knows what love is now; even though it has personally
experienced little of it. It accepts the existence of love as an act
of faith, and it is no longer the soul of a sociopath.
Could Voldemort LIVE with such a portion of a soul like this?  He
can't even live 5 minutes in Harry's body?  Could Voldemort reclaim
this portion and then be destroyed?

So long as Harry Potter and Lord Voldemort/Tom Riddle are a hybrid
entity,  one but as DD said "in essence divided" they can never
truly be free.
 The question whose answer is now far more difficult to anticipate
is whether Harry Potter himself is to survive the final
confrontation.
Will Harry need to sacrifice himself, altogether, to be sure the
soul passes beyond the Veil? Must he, in order to vanquish his
enemy, sacrifice this internal Other who has been a part of himself
for most of his life, and without whom he would not have survived?
And will that other Self willingly choose to be so sacrificed? Will
their two souls again be divided?


The question of Nagini:

The reason why 'some' theorize Harry's scar as a horcrux is because
a lot of fans are not convinced that Nagini is a horcrux. Many think
that Nagini is a red Herring. DD IS USUALLY RIGHT, but I do think
this is an area that DD could be mistaken in his ASSUMPTION
(although DD's assumptions are usually correct).

Arguments against Nagini horcrux:

"you can use animals to make horcruxes?" (Harry)

"Well it is inadviseable to do so " said Dumbledore, "because to
confide a part of your soul into something that can think and move
for itself is obviously very risky business.  However, if my
calculations are correct, Voldemort was still at least one Horcrux
short of his goal of six the night he entered your parents house
with the intention of killing you....he believed that in killing
you, he was destroying the danger the prophecy had outlined.  He
believed he was making himself invincible.  I am sure he was
intending to make his final horcrux with your death."

however....

1) How could LV split his soul when he was so weak he could barely
hold his own wand, he was in a snake-like fetal state and needed to
be bottle fed by wormtail? It appears that everytime LV creates a
horcruxes he becomes a little less human-it appears that creating a
horcrux literally 'takes a lot out of you,' I just don't see LV
strong enough of soul to create a horcrux out of Frank Bryce's death-
remeber at this point he only recently was 'barely a ghost' Wormtail
had just helped restore him to a 'form' and LV would have been
reduced back to a ghost with just a few days neglect.

2) Why would LV use an INSIGNIFICANT death to create his final
horcrux? Even if LV were strong enough why use the death of a muggle
like Frank to create his LAST horcrux? He had originally planned to
use Harry's death, are we to really believe that LV gave up that
ambition and decided to use Frank Bryce instead? The death of Frank
is meaningless to him, akin to one stepping on a bug, it would have
probably been more meaningful to use Bertha's death-at least she
helped LV formulate his 'plan' in GOF. No one who is sure Nagini is
in fact a horcrux can answer this quesion, LV uses trpohy deaths to
create trophy horcruxes...why would LV change? Isn't he more
consumed with Harry's death than ever? Wouldn't he want to continue
his original plans an create his last horcrux out of Harry's death?

3) Why would LV feel 'urgency' to create another horcrux? Only one
horcrux had been destroyed to his knowledge-only the diary. He knew
there was 4 other objects. I think LV conceit is clearly portryed in
the series, he thinks himself much too clever to think that anyone
has any of his other 4 objects, I think there is no reason to
believe that he would feel 'urgency.'

5) Probably the most important objection, why would LV give up on
his plan? Many scholarly fans have written extensively on the four
houses and the four elements air, water, fire, earth...Hogwarts
Professor.com has a new article about the power of four in
alchemy...it is clear in ther series that LV is devoted to
symbolism, it is also clear that he prizes his soul and the
horcruxes that encase his soul above all things...why would he
deviate from his master plan, and why would JKR deviate from the
powerful number 4? I think she hasn't. I think there are indeed 4
horcruxes, from the four relics, or the four houses. I think that
either Harry is the Gryffindor object or the Gryffindor object has
yet to be made.


6) why would he put his precious soul 'purposefully' in an living
object when it is unadviseable to do so?

If Harry isn't a horcrux, and frankly I am not at all certain he is,
I just think it is a 'possibility' to consider, I think THAT THE
LAST HORCRUX HAS YET TO BE MADE!

I think LV plans to kill Harry and create his last Gryffindor
horcrux, I also think he is eyeing up the very same Trophy object he
desired 16 - 17 years ago-the Gryffindor sword. I wouldn't be
surprised if he is planning an attack on Hogwarts, a plan to have
the sword and use Harry's death to create his final horcrux...
To use the death that escaped him to make a horcrux out of the
object that alluded him-The trophy death of Harry to create the
trophy horcrux-The Gryffindor Sword.

Frankly, if indeed Nagini is the last horcrux, I would be
disappointed, in the sense that IMO Nagini as a horcrux doesn't gel
with the storyline nor with the character of LV.

I hope my rambling thoughts are coherent enough, I await the
thoughts of others....

Scarlett