Harry & Slytherin (was:Re: Sorting Hat (was: muggle baiting vs. muggle torture)

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 155596

> >>Triin:
> > What is it about Harry's personality that makes him so 
> > Slytherin that the hat had to be begged not to put him there? He 
> > is such a *straightfoward* person, with a "saving people thing", 
> > etc; to me he sounds like an epitome of Gryffindor values.. 

> >>Betsy Hp:
> > Huh.  I would never have thought to describe Harry 
> > as "straightforward".  He strikes me as someone who plays his 
> > cards very close to the vest, letting as few people in as 
> > possible.  <snip>

> SSSusan:
> I can't speak for Triin, of course, but I wonder if what was meant 
> by calling him a *straightforward* person is simply that he's      
> not... I don't know... duplicitous?  He's not going to            
> *consciously* tweak how he comes across to others. 
> <snip>
> But, yes, he *does* play his cards close to the vest.  And he is 
> naturally an introvert.  I think those don't *not* fit with being 
> straightforward.  Maybe you're thinking of straightforward in the 
> sense of someone who's *forthright*?  But Triin may mean it more 
> like this (from dictionary.com):
> 1. Not circuitous or evasive; honest and frank.  
> 2. Free from ambiguity or pretense; plain and open. 

Betsy Hp:
Hmm, I do agree that Harry isn't naturally duplicitous.  So I 
probably *am* thinking more about "forthright".  However, I'm not 
sure I'd label Harry as "plain and open" or "honest and frank".  Not 
that Harry would present a *false* face, but he'd do his best to 
present no face at all.

With Harry, if he's questioned too much or he's under stress, he 
shuts down and closes off.  So while he doesn't majorly tweak how 
he's coming across ("I'm a big shining sun of confidence!!"), he 
does do some minor tweaking ("Nothing to see here folks, I feel 
fine.").  And he does it well enough that he manages to keep his 
friends at arms length if that's his goal.

I certainly wouldn't label that sort of self-protection as 
duplicitous, but I wouldn't call it honest either.

> >>Betsy Hp:
> > Because of that I think Harry rather naturally goes a bit sneaky 
> > when he wants to find something out.  I don't think it's an 
> > accident that his two most important tools are a cloak that     
> > allows him to disappear and map that allows him to silently     
> > spy.  Harry likes to creep about rather than straightforwardly   
> > ask for information.  

> >>SSSusan:
> This is a *great* insight into Harry's personality, imo.  So,      
> okay, he is sneaky... but I still think he can be straightforward 
> in that the sneakiness isn't really about pretense; it's about    
> facility or necessity (as Harry sees it).  What I'm saying is that 
> I think your comment here shows that your use of the               
> word "straightforwardly" might well be more in line               
> with "forthrightly" than with the "free from pretense, honest and 
> frank" kind of definition.

Betsy Hp:
Well, I'll definitely rule out "forthright". <g>  But I'm still on 
the fence about "straightforward".  Harry is certainly single-minded 
when he wants to be, but the very fact that he's usually hiding the 
fact that he's after something (information, etc.) suggests a 
certain lack of honesty or frankness.  And Harry will engage in a 
minor bit of pretense if it suits him (ie his true feelings 
regarding Mrs. Figg; the amount of work he put into his occlumency, 
etc.).

I wouldn't call Harry *manipulative*, but he is secretive.  And if 
neccessary, he'll lie to keep his secrets.

Betsy Hp