KarmaRe: muggle baiting vs. muggle torture

[houyhnhnm102]

No: HPFGUIDX 155781

Gerry:

> In this case the DA was hugely succesful but 
> they were betrayed.

houyhnhnm:

*Hugely* successful?  In what way were they hugely 
successful?  The Trio acquired two additional allies:  
Neville and Luna.  What did they achieve by inviting 
25 students, many of whom they barely knew.  Someone 
was bound to turn traitor.  None of the others showed 
up the next year to fight the Death Eaters.  Some of 
them may yet contribute to success in the final battle, 
but then they've also had a real DADA professor in the 
meantime, so who's to say it will be due to their 
participation in DA.

On the other hand, if the DA had never been formed, 
Dumbledore would not have been forced to leave the 
school at a time when they needed him most.  Dumbledore 
might have been able to sort out the Occlumency fiasco 
if he'd been around.  Harry might never have been lured 
to the Ministry, and Sirius might still be alive.

Gerry:

> I think for a sixteen year old schoolgirl Hermione did a 
> very good job.

houyhnhnm:

This is the standard excuse that is trotted out every 
time there is an argument over whether or not one of the 
"good' guys did something wrong.  They're only kids.  
Well, then maybe they should stay out of the action and 
let the adults handle it. 

Gerry:

> Was Marietta disaffected? Did she talk about it? 
> Did she mention it?

houyhnhnm:

At the very first meeting, Cho told Harry that Marietta's 
parents had *forbidden* her to do anything to upset Umbridge. 
That should have been a red flag. You're probably going to 
say that since she didn't tell Hermione that lets Hermione 
off the hook.  I say that when Hermione decided to invite 
a couple of dozen students she hardly knew to engage in a 
clandestine activity, she should have made it her business 
to know what was going on with each of them.

Gerry:

> Blaming the victim. Sorry but I get rather angry with 
> this sort of reasoning. Because I've seen it in the past: 
> she should have dressed differently, she should not have 
> walked there, etc. etc. Or: she should not have made me 
> angry (how many abusers use this kind of reasoning?) 

houyhnhnm:

You're talking about blame.  I'm talking about responsibility.
How satisfying would it be to be able to blame the bad guys 
if Voldemort were to win the war.  It seems like it would 
be a lot better to keep that from happening. The blame game 
is a loser's strategy. (And yes, I have been mugged.  However 
psychologically satisfying it was to blame the criminal, it 
didn't get me my purse or my credit back.  I wanted to make 
sure it never happened again, so I did look at how my 
carelessness may have contributed to the incident.)

Gerry:

> A person is responsible for his own actions

houyhnhnm:

Exactly