Traitors and Deserters (was:Re: muggle baiting vs. muggle torture)

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 155790

> >>Betsy Hp:
> > Exactly my point.  Either the DA is an army in the middle of a 
> > shooting war, so Marietta deserves to be punished in the manner 
> > that she's punished and the twins are deserters and should have 
> > been similarly punished.  Or the DA is not an army, the twins   
> > didn't desert and Marietta's punishment was *waay* over the     
> > top.  You can't have it both ways.
> > <SNIP>

> >>Alla:
> Um, if I were to see **any** similarity between what Twins did and 
> what Marietta did, I would agree with you that they should have   
> been punished the same way.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
If it's a shooting war the similarity is that both acts weaken the 
DA army.  Marietta weakens it by betraying its meeting location to 
the enemy.  The twins weaken it by removing two of the DA army's 
stronger soliders (themselves) from the battlefield.  

That's actually why treason and desertion are often punished in 
similar ways (I think, anyway).  They both play *major* havoc on an 
army's readiness to fight.  Though I'm not saying that treason and 
desertion are the *exact* same thing.  Just that they are both 
frowned on by fighting forces throughout the world.

> >>Gerry:
> Marietta made it impossible for the DA to learn the necessary     
> defence against LV. She is a snitch. The twins quit school while   
> making a fool of Umbridge, thereby giving heart to everybody while 
> the DA had ceased to exist because of Marietta. That makes what   
> the twins did heroic and makes what Marietta did betrayal.

Betsy Hp:
Ah, but see you're not talking shooting war here.  You're talking 
subversive study group and giving the nasty headmistress a hard way 
to go.  That's how I see it too.  So yes, Marietta is a snitch and 
the twins were great. (I cannot give them heroic, sorry, I can only 
stretch so far. <g>)

But in that case, leaving a girl disfigured for such a great length 
of time for just being a snitch is a rather cruel form of vengence, 
IMO.  And Hermione needs to realize that.  She should be above such 
vicious acts of cruelty, IMO.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/155766
> >>Gerry
> Blaming the victim. Sorry but I get rather angry with this sort of
> reasoning. Because I've seen it in the past: she should have      
> dressed differently, she should not have walked there, etc. etc.   
> Or: she should not have made me angry (how many abusers use this   
> kind of reasoning?)
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
I pulled this comment from another thread, but this is exactly what 
I see happening in the Hermione/Marietta discussions.  I say what 
Hermione did was horribly underhanded and cruel and I get 
told, "Well, Marietta deserved it!"  (Which always makes me wonder 
if teachers are out there with purple markers writing "Snitch" on 
the faces of children who tell tales, since disfigurment is such a 
popular disciplinary tool all of a sudden. <g>)

Yes, Marietta snitched on the other students.  Just as yes, that 
woman's skirt was really short, or yes, your girlfriend did burn 
your dinner.  But that's not what I'm talking about.  I'm talking 
about the over-the-top punishment being handed out.

Okay, so Marietta gets a giant "Snitch" written across her face in 
purple zits.  There's no hiding that and while it isn't preventative 
it certainly means everyone knows who the tattle-tale was.  But I 
raised an eyebrow when Marietta was forced to wear a ski-mask on the 
train ride home, a month or so later (IIRC).  And it *really* bugged 
me when she showed up caked in makeup with the "Snitch" zits still 
showing through the next year.  Talk about beating a dead horse.  
And then chopping it up.  And then beating the chopped up pieces.  
And then feeding it to a dog.  And then beating the dog.  

I mean *come on*!  She's the Snitch.  Yes, thank you, Hermione, 
we're all aware of it now.  Everyone in the school is aware of it as 
are Marietta's parents and anyone who may have dropped by the family 
home over Summer break. (I seriously doubt Marietta left the house, 
except maybe to go to St. Mungos.)  I think the lesson has been 
driven home now.  Even the "Hermione's a total psycho if you cross 
her.  Um, best to not get involved in anything she's involved in.  
In fact, best not to even cross her path if you can help it." 
lesson.  (One I'm not sure will serve Harry well if the Sorting Hat 
is at all correct.)

The person I'm concerned about is Hermione.  I think she's heading 
in a bad direction and needs to be checked.

Betsy Hp