HBP - Draught of Living Death Potion??

[justcarol67]

No: HPFGUIDX 153299

honeykissed wrote:
><snip>
> I was wondering (being fairly new to posting) has anyone thought 
> that the lake that Dumbledore and Harry went to in order to retrieve 
> the Horcrux was actually filled with the Draught of Living Death.  
> 
> I read a very interesting summation of this and it makes sense.  I 
> kept wondering why when Harry would say "aguamenti" and the cup 
> would fill with water it would automatically empty and he was 
> coerced into getting "water" from the lake.  Why did the inferi 
> attempt to pull Harry into the lake but not Dumbledore?  I am not 
> sure if Dumbledore actually drank the "water" or (if I can remember 
> correctly) he drank a little and got splashed with it.  
> 
> I also noticed that all the potions that JKR have mentioned in her 
> books have played a pivotal role later on in the series. <snip>
Slughorn also introduces us to the Draught of Living Death but we
haven't actually "seen it yet" UNLESS that is what the lake was and
what has affected Dumbledore.  They were real specific about its
symptoms and how it affects people.  
><snip>

Carol responds:
Interesting idea. BTW, did you mean "*weren't* real specific" in that
last sentence?

Small sidenote to start off with. The Draught of Living Death is not
introduced by Slughorn in HBP but by Snape in the very first Potions
lesson in SS/PS (along with the bezoar and monkshood/wolfsbane
questions). Since, as you say, the potions introduced in the books
often play an important role, and since a bezoar has just saved Ron's
life and the Wolfsbane Potion played a key role in PoA, I'd say that
it's a safe bet that the Draught of Living Death will indeed be
important in Book7. 

Slughorn may not say much about its effects, but Snape is quite specific: 

"For your information, Potter, asphodel and wormwood make a sleeping
potion so powerful it is known as the Draught of Living Death" (SS/PS
Am. ed. 158). I deduce from these words that the sleeper falls into a
deathlike sleep rather like the sleep that Snow White fell into after
biting the poisoned apple. Exactly how the sleeper is awakened or how
the sleep can be distinguished from death is not stated (nor does
Snape list all of the ingredients of the potion at this time, but the
effects of the potion itself seem clear. And certainly Snape knows how
to make it since the HBP's notes include directions for improving it.
I would imagine that if anyone knows the antidote, it's also Snape.
(We've speculated onlist that there could be some connection between
the Draught of Living Death and "putting a stopper in death," but I
don't think we've reached any agreement.)

I don't think that the water in the lake is the Draught of Living
Death. DD was only sprinkled with it, and perhaps a trickle went into
his mouth, but I think the weakness, as well as the burning thirst,
the mental and emotional anguish, and the physical agony that seems to
have accompanied it were all the work of the potion (poisoned memory?)
that DD drank. As I understand it, the potion drinker craved water,
but only the water in the lake would quench the burning thirst--at the
same time disturbing and alerting the Inferi to the presence of a
(greatly weakened) intruder. DD fended them off with fire. Had he not
done so, both he and Harry would have died a most horrible death.

honeykissed:
> I think its also suspect that they made a lot of comments about 
> Dumbledore appearing sleepy or tired.  I have to look back at the 
> book for specific comments but they were made.  I think that 
> Voldemort is powerful enough to concoct a lake full of potion and it 
> would fit with what Dumbledore said.  He said that Voldemort would 
> want to "question" the person who made it past his defenses.  What 
> better way to do that than to put them to sleep and wake them up 
> later.  

Carol:
I think that LV concocted the potion in the Pnesievlike bowl, but a
whole huge nearly bottomless lake full of potion of any kind seems
like a tall order even for him. I think that both the lake and the
island (which reminds me of Gollum's!) are natural. Only the boat and
chain, the spells, the bowl on its column, and the potion are LV's doing.

I do find DD's words about the potion not killing the drinker
immediately and especially the part about LV wanting to question the
Horcrux thief afterwards suspect. I think he's simply reassuring Harry
that it's okay to feed him the potion: He's not going to die, at least
not immediately. I think he suspects that something very bad will
follow the drinking--probably something to do with the Inferi--but he
doesn't want to alarm Harry. (Surely he knows, after the destruction
of the diary, which LV didn't know about until Malfoy confessed it,
and of the ring Horcrux, which he still doesn't know about or Snape
would be dead, that emptying the bowl and stealing the locket won't
alert LV. And we know that it won't, either. Regulus was killed for
other reasons, the real locket is still intact, and Harry and DD
escaped alive--barely so, in DD's case--after stealing the fake Horcrux.)
> 
honeykissed:
> I also think that is why Dumbledore asked for Snape.  Snape may know 
> how to counter the effects of the Draught of Living Death but of 
> course we know that the death eaters came and the plan then had to 
> change.  I do think that for that split moment when Snape did come 
> out of the tower and looked at Dumbledore, they were able to 
> communicate.  I do believe that Snape did what he was asked to do by 
> Dumbledore.
> 
Carol:
Snape would know how to counter the effects of the potion, whatever it
was, but of course he could not do so on the tower surrounded by Death
Eaters with no antidote ingredients at hand. (I don't think a
countercurse can counter a potion.) Otherwise, I agree with you. Snape
did what he had to do, what DD wanted him to do, and that wish was
probably communicated through Legilimency. (I realize that several
people on this list hold a different opinion, which I'm not going to
argue with here. I'm just expressing my agreement with you on this point.)

honeykissed:
> Another thing that was suspect to me as well.  Remember that Ginny 
> told Harry that they (Ginny, Hermione, Ron) used the Felix potion 
> that he had left for them and that is why all the curses "appeared 
> to miss them".  Now my question is the Felix potion makes people 
> lucky.  So why would the "lucky" thing be for Hermione and Ginny to 
> allow Snape to past them?  
<snip>

Carol:
It was Luna who was watching outside Snape's office with Hermione (HBP
Am. ed. 619), and it seems unlikely that she (Luna) would have been
affected by the Felix Felicis since she didn't drink it. Nor could it
have saved her from being killed by Snape (who, IMO, had no intention
of killing either of them) for the same reason. But you're right. Why
*would* it be lucky for Snape to rush past them, or past Ginny, Ron,
and Neville, who were with the Order fighting DEs? Unless Dumbledore
could not be saved and Snape's actions were the only way to save Harry
and the school. Lucky indeed, for everyone except Snape (and DD, who
would, IMO, have died in any case).

Carol, who can't believe she's hearing thunder in early June!