DD and Draco's murder attempts - No Evidence!/Regulus--dead?

[sistermagpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 153399

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <bboyminn at ...> wrote:
>
> --- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "dumbledore11214"
> <dumbledore11214@> wrote:
> 
> > 
> > Alla:
> > 
> > ...edited....
> > 
> > How MUCH Dumbledore knew about Draco's activities in your 
opinion? 
> > He did not know about the cabinets? True, that seems to be 
supported 
> > by canon, but now you are saying that after attack on Katie 
> > Dumbledore STILL did not know that Draco was involved?
> > 
> > Dumbledore seems to be very clear that he knew who was behind 
> > attack  on her in his conversation, no?
> > 
> > And if he indeed knew FOR SURE that Draco is involved than my 
answer 
> > is YES, Draco should have been restrained ASAP, but of course 
only 
> > if Dumbledore knew for sure. IMO of course.
> > 
> 
> bboyminn:
> 
> Sorry, but I think you are suffering a case of a reversal of time.
> 
> The first event to happen was the attack on Kate, yet you say,
> '...Dumbledore ***STILL*** did not know that Draco was involved'.
> There is no 'still' to it, this is the first significant event, and
> they have proof positive that Draco was NOT directly involved. 
Draco
> was not in Hogsmeade that day; he was in detention with McGonagall.
> I'd say that is a pretty good alibi. Further in the second 
significant
> event that resulted in the poisoning of Ron, there is no way to
> connect Draco to it. 
> 
> Yes, at the end, at the top of the tower just before Dumbledore 
died,
> he was able to bring the various fragments of information together 
and
> combine them with was Draco was saying in the moment, but that 
doesn't
> mean he had all that information all that time. 
> 
> Everyone knew Draco was up to something, partly because Draco is
> always up to something. This is just the first time that what he 
is up
> to is gravely serious. Yet, not knowing what he is up to means that
> they also have no way of knowing just how /gravely/ serious his
> actions are.  
> 
> I really don't think it is fair to expand Dumbledore's conclusion 
at
> the end backward in time and assume he always had that information.
> Certainly, Dumbledore had suspicious, but he lack any proof or any 
way
> to connect the events to Draco. If he had brought this to court, 
they
> would have laughed at him, even the very eager 'War' courts of
> Scrimgeour couldn't have made a case of what Dumbledore knew prior 
to
> the events on the tower.


Magpie:
I really don't think Dumbledore is looking for evidence one way or 
the other.  Dumbledore rarely works in that way, and I can't see him 
wanting to go to Scrimgeour with evidence about what the kid is up 
to.  He knows, it seems, what task Draco has been assigned and why 
and has put Snape on the case to try to find out what he's planning 
beforehand.  Even if he had decided to act, imo, he would not be 
arresting Draco or expelling him, just doing something to restrict 
his movements or something--maybe confronting him.  But I think his 
plan was more like what we got in the book.  Obviously a lot of 
things went wrong and DD wasn't planning on ending up dead I don't 
think, but I think he was always more interesting in turning Malfoy 
a different way than arresting him.  That, I think, is also part of 
why he's trying to keep Harry away from him.  He knows what's going 
on and doesn't want Harry complicating matters.

aussie:
If DD arranged for Regulus to disappear, why wasn't RAB's memory in
DD's pensive ... even if not for Harry to see. With that memory, DD
wouldn't have been weakened and would be alive to hunt other
Horcruxes today.

Magpie:
And if DD arranged for Regulus to disappear why was he wasting his 
time and swallowing green goo in pursuit of a fake horcrux?  
Wouldn't Regulus be on his side and telling him he'd taken it?

I think Regulus could well be a wild card *because* no on in the WW 
thought much of him.  He acted on his own or with an accomplice who 
is also unknown as of yet.  To me that's part of what makes Regulus 
such a great character, that his act against Voldemort was 
potentially one he decided on his own and did without anyone knowing 
it until now.  In order to discover the Horcrux people must get to 
know the real Regulus and learn the story that until now was a 
secret.  I'd personally rather not learn that DD swooped in and 
orchestrated anything.

-m