Baptism/Christianity in HP: was Looking for God in Harry Potter

[Tonks]

No: HPFGUIDX 153636

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Magpie" <belviso at ...> wrote:
>
> Magpie:
> And I'm saying the pattern you're referring to begins to appear 
when you go in looking for that pattern.  Happens all over the place 
in fandom.  James is a totally common name.  It's a nice English 
name, just like Harry is. 
> And a lot of the girls in canon are named after flowers.  Trying 
to relate everything to a code to the point of taking an ordinary 
name like James and deciding it must be an allusion to an apostle 
who preached about good works (which doesn't make me think of James 
Potter at all) just because he's in the Bible is, imo, not a reading 
supported by the text but more like the  many other fandom readings 
where the text is called in to support the reading the author 
wants.  (snip)  If I saw something beyond James sharing his common 
name with  somebody in the Bible I'd certainly consider it--Rowling 
has been known to choose names with mythological significance and I 
don't think the Bible is off-limits, but I can also see that names 
have modern associations too and that Rowling uses them.  I'm sure 
she chose "Lily" knowing all its associations, but Lily is also just 
Petunia's sister, the spunky girl flirting with James Potter as he 
pantses Snape.
> 
>

Tonks:
Looks like rain to me...

Drop: Harry has a mark on his forehead that appeared there after the 
sacrificial death of his mother. A death that did not need to 
happen. And the mother's name is Lily which leads one to think of an 
Easter lily. Symbolism of the Death of Christ and a reminder of (but 
not the same as) the (invisible) mark left on a child/adult at their 
Baptism. Just happens to be at the same place. Hum.. (Note: the mark 
put on a child at baptism is the mark of the way in which Christ 
died. . a cross which was an evil thing..  and Harry's mark is the 
mark of LV.  The cross only became a positive symbol for Christians 
because of the Resurrection.)

Drop:  First year students at Hogwarts travel through the water to 
get into the Castle.  ONLY first years go this way. Why? This is the 
symbol of entry into the Church through the water of Baptism.

Drop: The name Sirius means Morning Star and this is a known symbol 
of Christ who is called the morning star. 

Tonks_op: "oh look it starting to rain."

Others: "no it isn't." "Not a cloud in the sky."

Drop:  Sirius's friends are James, John and Peter.  Jesus' closest 
disciples were Peter, James and John. He told them with him 
everywhere. They were the only ones he took with him when 
he `transfigured'.  Why did JKR chose these names and the whole 
concept of transfiguration? She could have used other names, but why 
these and in this combination? Why do the 4 of them transfigure? 

Drop: Book title: HP and the Philosopher's Stone.  Symbol of the 
quest for eternal life.

Drop: Book title: HP and the Chamber of Secrets.  Symbolism of both 
the death of Adam and Eve at the hand of the serpent, and the 
Resurrection of Jesus in the tomb. Also symbolism of the saving 
grace given to Adam and Eve because of the resurrection of Jesus.  
Because Harry represented Adam and Ginny represents Eve, it makes 
sense that later on JKR would pair the two.  Ginny was always meant 
in JKR's mind to be Harry's true love because they represent Adam 
and Eve. 

Drop: Book title: Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban. Christ 
comes to set the prisoner free. 

Tonks_op: "it is really starting to rain hard now.  Here, get under 
my umbrella. "

Others:  "We don't see any rain. You are crazy." "You only think you 
see rain because you are looking for rain."

Drop: Book title: Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire.  A Goblet 
with fire that does not consume. A non-consuming fire is a symbol of 
God and the Goblet a symbol of the challis used by Jesus at the last 
supper. 

Drop: Book title: Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix.  DD 
formed the Order of the Phoenix (phoenix is a symbol of 
Resurrection). This is similar to Jesus and his disciples and the 
forming of the first Christian church.  The Order fights LV who 
himself represents the powers of darkness and evil. The Christian 
church also fights the powers of darkness and evil. The Church on 
Earth is called the Church Militant. 

Drop: Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince.  Of course the 
reference is not to Snape, but to the real Half-blood Prince who was 
Jesus.  And in this book (as I have written in detail elsewhere in 
post #147906 and #151730) we have the metaphorical Crucifixion of 
Christ at the "place of the Skull" having been betrayed by one of 
his own. 

Drop: At the end of book 6 we are left with the words of Scrimgeour 
to Harry that "even Dumbledore can not return from the ----"  Now 
why I ask you would JKR choose those words out of anything she could 
have said?

Drop: In an interview JKR says that DD is not Jesus. Hum.. why use 
those words? She could have said "he is not Merlin, he is not ____. 
why "not Jesus"  if she did not mean for us to think about the 
connection?  She did not say "he is not Christ". 

Tonks: "Here is an umbrella. You are going to get soaked out there."

Others (dripping wet, standing in a puddle of water):  "No thanks.  
We still don't see or feel any rain!!"  "It is NOT raining!"

What can I say???

Tonks_op