Baptism/Christianity in HP: was Looking for God in Harry Potter

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 153644

> Tonks:
<SNIP>
> Drop:  Sirius's friends are James, John and Peter.  Jesus' closest 
> disciples were Peter, James and John. He told them with him 
> everywhere. They were the only ones he took with him when 
> he `transfigured'.  Why did JKR chose these names and the whole 
> concept of transfiguration? She could have used other names, but 
why 
> these and in this combination? Why do the 4 of them transfigure? 

Alla:

So, are you saying that Sirius is a really a metaphor for Christ?

And about names, um, she does not use them in THAT combination. She 
NEVER uses name John in canon to the best of my recollection, except 
R.J. Lupin,unless I missed something.

So, this metaphor does not work for me at all. The way I see it, she 
may have never let fans know that Remus second name is John. Why 
would she not use it as his first name, if you claim that those 
three are direct allegory for Jesus' disciples? She just mentioned 
it in interview to satisfy fans' curiosity. We could have never 
known.


> Drop: Book title: HP and the Chamber of Secrets.  Symbolism of 
both 
> the death of Adam and Eve at the hand of the serpent, and the 
> Resurrection of Jesus in the tomb. Also symbolism of the saving 
> grace given to Adam and Eve because of the resurrection of Jesus.  
> Because Harry represented Adam and Ginny represents Eve, it makes 
> sense that later on JKR would pair the two.  Ginny was always 
meant 
> in JKR's mind to be Harry's true love because they represent Adam 
> and Eve. 

Alla:

So, who is Jesus in this book? Tom Riddle? Who else is resurrected 
besides him?

Tonks:
> Drop: Book title: Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban. Christ 
> comes to set the prisoner free. 

Alla:

?????? I guess we have different person as Jesus in this book. Harry?

 
> Drop: Book title: Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire.  A Goblet 
> with fire that does not consume. A non-consuming fire is a symbol 
of 
> God and the Goblet a symbol of the challis used by Jesus at the 
last 
> supper. 

Alla:

Except this Goblet only works SOMETIMES, not all the time. Sounds 
like stretching canon to support your argument to me.


> > Tonks:
> > Looks like rain to me...
> 
> Magpie:
> Looks like..I don't even know what to me.
> 
> Could you just present a premise that can be understood and 
argued?  Because 
> right now all I've got is a hodge-podge of anything in the books 
that makes 
> you think about anything in the Bible, some of it contradicting 
itself, with 
> different characters switching roles when necessary.  When 
something doesn't 
> really fit you change it to make it fit, some associations I don't 
even 
> think are right or better echo other, more obvious, imagery that 
isn't the 
> one you want.  Vividly drawn characters are completely erased to 
just their 
> names (sometimes not even that if their name isn't right) with 
nothing added 
> to them that I can see.  Things and people in canon are turned 
into symbols 
> for other things that already exist as themselves within canon.  
And 
> throughout it all there's this framing device where you pre-
emptively claim 
> that if I don't find your argument convincing at all you're still 
right and 
> I'm just not seeing it, which is just not cool at all.  I think I 
could get 
> into an interesting religious theory that went through all the 
books in an 
> exciting way--it's not like I haven't seen the potential for some 
myself 
> over the years.  But I don't see it here.


Alla:

Thank you, Magpie. Thank you SO much for saying it. I DO see 
christian THEMES, christian motives in the story, after all JKR is a 
christian and she is IMO obviously influenced by those motives and 
someone said - sacrificial love, self-sacrifice, et CERTAINLY are 
christian motives.

But they are also human motives, they are what every good person 
would do or at least think she/he would do when faced with possible 
death of your child, with fighting against evil,etc.

I do NOT see in Harry Potter direct word by word allegory to the 
Bible. I just don't.

IMO,

Alla 
>