Understanding Snape--Pensieve scene

[Julie]

No: HPFGUIDX 153733

I've been away for a while so please forgive if this had already 
been discussed, but I had a thought while reading justcarol's, 
Kneasy's and Naama's thoughts about "Snape's Worst Memory" in the 
pensieve.  To recap: 

> > > Kneasy: > <lots of snipping>> > Snape hated James...The scene 
we see in the pensieve *is* his worst memory, at least of the 
humiliated-in-school genre...

> Naama: <snip> ...My opinion is that the pensieve is subjective, 
i.e., if you enter a memory, you can only sense what the subject of 
the memory sensed...<snip>

> Carol:> Harry has to hurry away from Severus to hear what MWPP are 
saying...<Snip> If he'd been listening [Snape]would have known that 
Remus was a werewolf, a fact he didn't learn until the Prank the 
next year. If the memory were subjective, Harry would be limited to 
Snape's POV...As it is, he can move about inside the memory, just as 
if he were present (but invisible). He is not inside Snape's mind 
and does not know his thoughts or sense his feelings. He observes 
Severus and MWPP from the outside, or rather from his own 
perspective, just as he observes the trials from his own perspective 
rather than Dumbledore's in the earlier Pensieve scenes....<end 
snips>


Inky:  I was thinking of JKR's device of presenting information, 
only to reveal how its been misinterpreted later on--Harry does this 
frequently and he's not the only character to do so.  What if Harry 
has done it again with the pensieve?  We talk a lot about Snape's 
worst memory--but from who's point of view?

The scene dubbed "Snape's Worst Memory" is a horrible one--for any 
teenager(or anyone else for that matter).  Being overcome by one's 
arch 
rivals/enemies, treated like a small naughty child (washing mouth 
with soap), rescued --sort of-- by a girl(regardles of SS/LE 
theories--Lily's still a girl,from a rival house, and if 
Snape did like her--even if he doesn't admit it to himself--it would 
make her interferance even worse), being stripped(either threat or 
fact). And "students all around had turned to watch" (pg. 646).  A 
deeply humiliating experience for any 15-year old boy much less one  
seemingly so socially inept as Severus Snape (who isn't able to 
defend himself against the pack).  Another humiliation: to James, 
Snape isn't important, not even as a lower life form to torment--
("...said James quickly...Go out with me, and I'll never lay a wand 
on old Snivelly again.")  The "war" against Snape wasn't of 
importance for James, its more of a casual recreation.  

Until the pensieve scene Harry has idolized his parents, especially 
his father.  Since coming to Hogwarts, Harry has been learning about 
both, but especially his wizard father(I've always thought it odd we 
know so little about Lily when its her sacrifice that thwarted 
Voldemort, its been all James, James, James until HBP).  James is 
not the freak the Dursleys claimed but someone who was brave and 
talented--a powerful wizard, athletic hero & expert flier, head boy, 
and very brave--he saved someone he didn't even like from 
death/werewolfism, and stood up against Voldemort, eventually giving 
his life to protect his wife and baby son. 

James is a great guy and Everyone tells Harry how much like his 
father he is.  This is a source of self-validation and pride 
for Harry, compared to the negative information grudingly give by 
the Dursleys.

Harry does not like Professor Snape--with some justification might I 
add. (At the same time, Harry gives Snape plenty of reasons to 
dislike him back) He is not upset to see 15 year-old 
Severus as round shouldered, twitchy, stringy, pallid, lank and 
greasy--its pretty much as he might have expected.

What upsets Harry is the sudden discover that James, at the same age 
as Harry, was a popular kid--something I think Harry had always 
yearned to be (just not as the boy-who-lived and must face Voldemort 
again, and again...), and James seems as bad a bully as Harry's 
cousin Dudley, that James had a gang just like Dudley, and delighted 
in tormenting a poorly dressed, scrawny, unpopular kid (like Harry 
was before Hogwarts)...well to say Harry was shocked it putting it 
mildly.  

Then before he can process what he has seen, he's busted and feeling 
guilty because regardless of his justification that he needs the 
info Snape's "hiding" Harry he knows he was wrong to snoop.  He's 
jerked out of the pensive to face an infuriated adult Professor 
Snape.  (I know there are those who don't see any justification for 
Snape's fury and ejection of Harry/end of Occlumency lesson, but 
Harry was seriously out of line. And while we know that DD told 
Harry he had hoped Snape would "overcome" his past feelings, we 
don't know what Dumbledore said about it to Snape.  But DD allowed 
that incident to continue as the last lesson.)   

Here's the point (finally).  We know that Snape seemed to know that 
Harry had accessed a "James" memory--(Amusing man, your father, 
wasn't he? said Snape).  We know that Harry saw Snape put 
three "memories" into the pensieve before the start of the 
interrupted and final lesson.  But what is there in canon as proof 
that the memory Harry saw was **Snape's** memory--one of the three? 
Or that all three were of James' misdeeds?  Surely there are other 
things that Snape would not want Harry to see.  (although, if Snape 
is as some have suggested solely motivated by cruelty and self-
interest, wouldn't it be perfect to only store hurtful memories of 
James for Harry to tapp into?  But I don't think Snape thinks that 
much about Harry in said circumstances) And Its not Snape's 
pensieve, its Dumbledore's--Harry recognizes it as 
such (pg.529). 

In assuming its "Snape's Worst Memory" we readers assume that there 
is nothing inside Dumbledore's pensieve but...three Snape memories?  
What happened to all of Dumbledore's memories? For that matter, we 
assume--through Harry's assumptions--that Snape is removing memories 
that he doesn't want Harry to see.  (Harry assumes Snape withholds 
info about the Department of Mysteries--as if Harry has a right to 
knowlege).  Might it not be that he's removing memories to prevent 
Voldemort vis Harry to see?  Or conversely adding memories for 
Dumbledore to view?  Afterall, Snape has just given Harry a lot of 
information 
regarding the Voldemort's connection with Harry, the snake and the 
Christmas vision.

My conjecture is that "Snape's worst memory" is misleading.  As many 
have noted, Death-eater Snape & Spy Snape must have worse memories 
gathered over the intervening 20-some years than schoolyard 
humiliations--no matter how bad they were.  

But I think that at that point in time--Snape's worst memory was the 
worst one for **Harry** to find.  Any evil deed of Snape's would 
only confirmed Harry's already negative opinion of the man he loves 
to dislike/disrespect.  But Harry is desperate for information on 
his parents--although like the old adage about easedroppers, he 
doesn't like what he finds.

And since this is Dumbledore's pensieve--its quite possible that 
Kneasy, JustCarol, and Naama are all correct.  It is a humilating 
event that crystalizes Snape's hatred a James & Gang.  Its a memory 
the Adult Snape doesn't want spread around for his students to 
snicker over--diminishing their respect and undermining his 
powerbase as an authority figure (which is probably the source of 
his own self-esteem).  Once again, Snape's animosity towards student-
Harry edges over to become entangled with his lingering-hatred for 
student-James.  

We don't know enough about pensieves. Perhaps there is some magic 
that acts as a general POV video recorder of an observed/heard/felt 
event rather than direct POV, in which case my point is irrelivant.  
We don't know if memories can be shared among pensieves or locked 
down and made inaccessible or at least compartmentized.  But we've 
seen two instances where Harry intruded into someone else's memories-
-both involving Dumbledore's pensieve.  

If the observer's POV is at all important to the creation of a 
pensieve memory, its possible that the memory was not Snape's POV 
but another observer--IMO most likely Dumbledore.  This would 
explain why Harry can observe both his dad's group and Snape. As 
Naama said--a subjective memory focuses on the subject's POV. As 
Carol said, how could Snape remain ingnorant of Lupin's condition if 
he/Harry heard them talk openly about it? 

Does anyone care to comment?

Inky