Horcrux: was Baptism/Christianity in HP

[sistermagpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 153788

Leslie:
> So, again, what I'm seeing here is the one "violent of evil" 
coming 
> to "the kingdom of god."  He is met by "good deeds" and the symbol 
> associated with the risen Christ.  Christ who sacrificed himself 
for 
> his "children," as Lily does for her child.  He kills both good 
> deeds and the symbol of the resurrection, and it appears that he 
> will be victorious.
> 
> He meets Harry and his own hate is reflected back upon him.  It is 
> important that Harry doesn't actually do anything but really serve 
> as a reflector at this point.
> 
> Lily's sacrifice reflects the sacrifice of Christ for his people, 
> for his "kingdom of God," so to me when we speak of Lily's 
sacrifice 
> being "all that's needed," what we're talking about in a greater 
> sense IS Christ's sacrifice.  
> 
> And to reinforce the idea of the importance and resonance 
of "God's 
> Kingdom," (and back on Godric's Hollow), the place on Harry's body 
> that reflects the "killing curse" (as opposed to the grace of the 
> eternal life provided by Christ) is the point at which he was 
> baptized and himself brought into God's Kingdom.
> 
> (And, this is looking more like allegory, which I generally don't 
> like, but the allegory is subtle and doesn't hit you over the 
head, 
> so I can deal with it.)
> 
> As for the Horcruxes, I will defer to Mugglenet's first definition 
> listed, which "and I quote "when broken down in many languages 
> means "outside the cross."
> 
> As in not of the cross, or opposed to the cross, or as I believe 
> follows logically, "against Christ."
>


Magpie:
Okay then.  I guess I've nothing to really add to it.  It doesn't 
seem to add anything to the story to me-the real characters involved 
seem to say what the author is trying to say rather than putting 
everything in terms of evil and Christ--as you said, it is turning 
it into an allegory, and not a particularly resonant one.  I suspect 
you could reduce many many scenes in literature to this same sort of 
formula given how Christianity has been such a huge influence on 
western culture and western names, and that one could probably 
relate the scene in Godric's Hollow to more than one mythological 
story as well.  

I mean, does this scenario really seem an important, straight re-
telling of important Christian truths?  You've got Voldemort, 
meaning something to do with his trying steal himself from death or 
fly from it--I'm not sure what "violent of evil" even means or 
where "violent" came from, if I accept that "mort" can also be evil. 
Given what Voldemort's purpose is I think "death" is far more likely 
to be the origin of his name. Going for "violent of evil" seems like 
reaching to make it fit the analogy you want.  

So Flying/Theft of Death (aka The Really Bad Guy and So Representing 
Evil in Our Tale) comes to a house in "Good Ruler/He Who Rules With 
God's" Hollow (Godric means "good ruler" or "he who rules with god" 
and this Hollow is presumably ruled by that good/godly ruler, it's 
not the actual Kingdom of God), he kills good deeds and the Risen 
Christ but gets his killing bounced back at him by the drop of water 
dripped during baptism (not specifically mentioned).

This still seems more honestly described by what the "other side" 
has acknowledged all along, that JKR's ideas about morality and good 
and evil are quite likely shaped by her faith.  "Sacrifice," 
especially the sacrifice of one's life for another, is a big thing 
for her--it's very in your face throughout the books.  At times it 
appears to be the way she prefers to indicate love for another.  So 
I've no trouble seeing a general echo of a willing sacrifice leading 
to mysterious protective magic, though she's given that ability to a 
human in her story, not reserved it for Christ.  The part about 
killing the Risen Christ and also good deeds (and that's leaving 
aside the other symbols that are supposed to somehow be involved, 
with Remus and Peter also being the apostles John and Peter, who 
went with Jesus everywhere just as these three go everywhere with... 
Sirius?) still doesn't really seem to say anything about the 
situation.  The James connection still seems more just trying to 
make something out of the name we're stuck with. Trying to draw the 
two stories together too closely seems to make each story less clear 
as we try to make them comment on each other where they don't.

-m